Against powerful touch attacks
- Thread starter root.tar
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Infiniti2000
First Post
Varying forms of concealment would help, such as displacement, obscuring mist, or even entropic shield (I think). Bumping up your touch AC to make the caster miss is also a good choice. Alternatively, you could try to keep him from casting, such as using counterspell, or mastery of counterspelling, improved counterspell, and/or duelward.
But, quite honestly, you've already let the cat out of the bag by allowing the orb spells as is.
But, quite honestly, you've already let the cat out of the bag by allowing the orb spells as is.
Infiniti2000
First Post
Unfortunately, SR does NOT apply to those stupid orbs of non-magical force (that you can save later in a bottle and sell). Thus, spell immunity doesn't work either.
Patlin
Explorer
The Ray Deflection spell is interesting. Mirror Image, Blink, and Displacement are also worth a try. Gaze attacks or blindness could help. Preferentially targeting the mage (by enemies that are aware of his abilities) might shut him down or put him on the defensive. Energy Resistance works well against the non-force orbs. Large Quantities of less powerfull mooks make rays pretty pointless.
We've allowed the orb spells in our last several campaigns with no problems whatsoever... but that may be because all of our PCs are powerfull, not just the ray specialist.
We've allowed the orb spells in our last several campaigns with no problems whatsoever... but that may be because all of our PCs are powerfull, not just the ray specialist.
Lord Zardoz
Explorer
Other than finding ways to kick up the touch AC, there are quite a few things you can try.
- The Blindness spell is great for neutralizing a Wizard or Sorcerer. It forces a Fort save, and they then cannot really get any use out of any spell that requires a line of sight.
- Mirror Image works just as well against Ranged Touch spells.
- A Grease spell followed by a Stinking Cloud will result in wizards who are nauseated and cannot move out of the area.
- Try starting encounters at a range of 300 or more feet. Not many ranged touch spells can reach that far. And while the -6 to hit with a Longbow hurts, Wizards generally have crappy AC anyway. To be a real bastard about it, start at maximum range and use True Strike.
- Dogpile the caster. Get him grappled and just beat on him. There are many ways to separate a caster from his meat shields. As long as you let him get through fights without having to defend himself, he will continue to have a disproportionate impact on combat.
- If you do not mind really infuriating your players, have an encounter with a bunch of Rogues of 5th level or so that start the fight Invisible. You will get one round of assured sneak attack damage, followed by 2nd round of such attacks assuming the Rogues mostly win initiative. If you put 2 or 3 on the wizard, he will quite simply die.
END COMMUNICATION
- The Blindness spell is great for neutralizing a Wizard or Sorcerer. It forces a Fort save, and they then cannot really get any use out of any spell that requires a line of sight.
- Mirror Image works just as well against Ranged Touch spells.
- A Grease spell followed by a Stinking Cloud will result in wizards who are nauseated and cannot move out of the area.
- Try starting encounters at a range of 300 or more feet. Not many ranged touch spells can reach that far. And while the -6 to hit with a Longbow hurts, Wizards generally have crappy AC anyway. To be a real bastard about it, start at maximum range and use True Strike.
- Dogpile the caster. Get him grappled and just beat on him. There are many ways to separate a caster from his meat shields. As long as you let him get through fights without having to defend himself, he will continue to have a disproportionate impact on combat.
- If you do not mind really infuriating your players, have an encounter with a bunch of Rogues of 5th level or so that start the fight Invisible. You will get one round of assured sneak attack damage, followed by 2nd round of such attacks assuming the Rogues mostly win initiative. If you put 2 or 3 on the wizard, he will quite simply die.
END COMMUNICATION
brehobit
Explorer
Hummm....
I've really never had this problem, and I ran a game with two warlocks... The orbs and stuff work really well against single targets with high AC and low hit points. I rarely use that kind of baddy. Animals tend to be high hit points for their CR and orbs are something of a waste. Also these touch attack spells are rarely useful against groups where each baddy has the same CR.
So if you are running lots of single baddy combats or the "high CR wizard behind the wall of scrubs" battles, the touch attack things get nasty in a hurry. Otherwise, not so much in my experiance.
Mark
I've really never had this problem, and I ran a game with two warlocks... The orbs and stuff work really well against single targets with high AC and low hit points. I rarely use that kind of baddy. Animals tend to be high hit points for their CR and orbs are something of a waste. Also these touch attack spells are rarely useful against groups where each baddy has the same CR.
So if you are running lots of single baddy combats or the "high CR wizard behind the wall of scrubs" battles, the touch attack things get nasty in a hurry. Otherwise, not so much in my experiance.
Mark
frankthedm
First Post
Use monsters more than classed NPCs. Classed NPCs are chumps, notably in the HP department and only get decent touch AC at a great cost.
Also larger numbers of foes rather than a few strong foes. A mass of CR 2's and 3's go a long way when Ray Orbison is in town.
Also larger numbers of foes rather than a few strong foes. A mass of CR 2's and 3's go a long way when Ray Orbison is in town.
Victim
First Post
Grappling anyone is a good defense against touch spells. The chance to hit an ally is a big downside to firing a ranged spell into a grapple, especially since it provides big damage on a single attack.
Use Cover. Even fighting in melee can provide a significant benefit if the wizard doesn't have Precise Shot. And you can get cover from the wizard's allies.
Manipulate distance; orb spells and many other ray attacks have close range. The wizard thrives on the gap between melee range (where he can often be hurt easily) and the max range on his spells (since spells don't really degrade over distance). If he's using close range spells like orbs, that gap is often uncomfortably small. Many foes will be able to close to melee in a single charge or move action. Especially since the wizard is going to prefer an unobstructed line of fire, since he doesn't want the enemy to have cover.
Use Cover. Even fighting in melee can provide a significant benefit if the wizard doesn't have Precise Shot. And you can get cover from the wizard's allies.
Manipulate distance; orb spells and many other ray attacks have close range. The wizard thrives on the gap between melee range (where he can often be hurt easily) and the max range on his spells (since spells don't really degrade over distance). If he's using close range spells like orbs, that gap is often uncomfortably small. Many foes will be able to close to melee in a single charge or move action. Especially since the wizard is going to prefer an unobstructed line of fire, since he doesn't want the enemy to have cover.
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