Szatany
First Post
Ah, but that's because the strong guy was more badly hurt to begin with (unless I'm not understanding something here).
Age of Wonders
- Thread starter Szatany
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Ah, but that's because the strong guy was more badly hurt to begin with (unless I'm not understanding something here).
ValhallaGH
Explorer
No, they were equally hurt. They both had 0 hp left.
And after 6 hours, the weak guy is all kinds of healthier than the strong guy. Making him stronger.
Szatany
First Post
They may have been equaly hurt but the strong one took far more damage. HP in my game don't represent ability to dodge serious damage (you have reflex save for that). A high level character can literally have more of his body hurt before he goes down, so it takes more time to heal for him.
ValhallaGH
Explorer
That's not consistent with what you describe HP as representing.
And now I've said my piece. I'm done with this conversation. Good luck with your system.
And now I've said my piece. I'm done with this conversation. Good luck with your system.
ValhallaGH
Explorer
In 3.x you recover your character level in hp. So it takes about as long to fully heal at any point in your career. The exception is, as you note, if you get an increase due to increased Constitution bonus, feats, or other sources. Even then, it adds no more than a day per con bonus increase.
If you used that model, then my complaint would be non-existant. It's the complete and total lack of scaling for natural healing that makes your system feel like it punishes characters for getting tougher. If you did scale it with level then both example characters would bounce back in about 6 hours (assuming one was level 1 and the other was level 20) and the strong guy would be actually and consistently stronger than the weak guy.
If you used that model, then my complaint would be non-existant. It's the complete and total lack of scaling for natural healing that makes your system feel like it punishes characters for getting tougher. If you did scale it with level then both example characters would bounce back in about 6 hours (assuming one was level 1 and the other was level 20) and the strong guy would be actually and consistently stronger than the weak guy.
Szatany
First Post
How about this variant:
Not Bloodied: You currently have more than half your total hit points. You are susceptible to subdual damage. If not bloodied, you recover 10% of your total hit points per hour.
Bloodied: Your current hit points are somewhere between half total hit points and zero. You are immune to subdual damage but vulnerable to death effects (effects that have a chance to slay you outright). When bloodied, you 10% of your total hit points per 8 hours of light activity or 4 hours or rest.
Not Bloodied: You currently have more than half your total hit points. You are susceptible to subdual damage. If not bloodied, you recover 10% of your total hit points per hour.
Bloodied: Your current hit points are somewhere between half total hit points and zero. You are immune to subdual damage but vulnerable to death effects (effects that have a chance to slay you outright). When bloodied, you 10% of your total hit points per 8 hours of light activity or 4 hours or rest.
ValhallaGH
Explorer
So 25 hours of real rest to fully recover, for everyone. Or 45 hours of "light activity", so it will probably be some kind of mix, around 37 hours, for the typical adventurer.
That's definitely a lot better overall than the original version, though it also has a different feel being based on hours of time (1 and 4/8) rather than minutes (1 and 60). I don't know how important that feel was to you. You also lose a touch of the elegance you had before, since there's now the requirement to figure out what 10% of max hp is, but that loss is a small price for the ability to recover in a useful time.
There are other ways to figure the number recovered, some based upon level, others based upon abilities (Con Mod, Con Score - 10, etc.). But the one you've suggested is probably the most fair.
That's definitely a lot better overall than the original version, though it also has a different feel being based on hours of time (1 and 4/8) rather than minutes (1 and 60). I don't know how important that feel was to you. You also lose a touch of the elegance you had before, since there's now the requirement to figure out what 10% of max hp is, but that loss is a small price for the ability to recover in a useful time.
There are other ways to figure the number recovered, some based upon level, others based upon abilities (Con Mod, Con Score - 10, etc.). But the one you've suggested is probably the most fair.
Szatany
First Post
Not really. 4e, for example, has a box on the character sheet where you put 25% of your total HP. Mine will simply have similar box for the 10% value.
(and to answer a possible future question: I have no plans for healing surges in my game)
Szatany
First Post
Preview III - Combat Statistics
In this preview I give you the basic combat stats. As you can see, this system has both 3e saves and 4e defenses. This is to give players opportunity to approach combat from more tactical angle. Saves are there so characters can spend actions to increase their chances of survival, unless they miscalculate. Choosing a right save for right situation is essential.
Other changes include simplified range increments, off-hand and 2-hand damage, and the return of 3.0 subdual damage (which I found an interesting concept but poorly implemented).
You will notice that every attribute except Wisdom affects exactly one defense or save. This was done to make attributes more balanced against eachother. Also, in an attempt to de-empasize dexterity's role in combat, Armor defense (old AC) is no longer affected by it. Armor is no unaffected by any attribute. It may be controvential, but I want to try it.
From chapter: combat
COMBAT STATISTICS
This section summarizes the statistics that determine success in combat, and then details how to use
ATTACK ROLL
An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent with an attack. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target’s defense (most often Armor defense), you hit and deal damage.
Automatic Hits: A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a critical hit if you beat target’s defense or save by 5 or more with the attack roll.
ATTACK BONUS
Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is:
Battle Ability bonus (BAB) + Strength modifier
Your attack bonus with a ranged weapon is:
Battle Ability bonus (BAB) + Dexterity modifier –5 penalty if the attack is made at maximum range
DAMAGE
When your attack succeeds, you deal damage. The type of weapon used determines the amount of damage you deal.
Damage reduces a target’s current hit points.
Strength Bonus: When you hit with a melee, thrown weapon, a sling, or a bow, add your Strength modifier to the damage result.
Off-Hand Weapon: When you deal damage with a weapon in your off hand, you don’t add your Strength bonus to damage, although you still add the penalty if your Strength is 9 or lower.
Wielding a Weapon Two-Handed: If you wield a one-handed melee weapon in both hands, you add +2 points of damage.
Dexterity Bonus: When you hit with a crossbow or a gun, add your Dexterity modifier to the damage result.
Maximized Damage: Sometimes you maximize damage, such as on a critical hit. Calculate the value of damage as if you have rolled a maximum possible result on all damage dice.
Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are not maximized.
Subdual Damage: Subdual damage reduces hit points only when the target is not hurt. A hurt character is immune to subdual damage.
Lethal Damage: As opposed to subdual damage, lethal damage reduces hit points regardless of target’s condition. Lethal damage is usually not specifically mentioned – any damage that is not described as subdual is lethal. For example, a fireball spell deals 24 points of damage. Since the damage is not described as subdual, the spell deals 24 points of lethal damage.
DEFENSES
There are three defenses that protect character in a passive manner, providing the attack roll result that an opponent needs to achieve to hit you.
Defense Types: The three different kinds of defenses are Armor, Stamina, and Will:
Armor: Represents how hard it is for opponents to land a solid, damaging blow on you. Your Armor defense is equal to 10 + armor bonus. All armor is more or less unwieldy, causing encumbrance penalty to certain skills. Heavy armor also reduces walk speed and imposes a penalty to Reflex saves.
Stamina: Measures your ability to stand up to physical punishment or attacks against your vitality and health. Your Stamina defense is equal to 10 + class bonus + Constitution modifier.
Will: Reflects your resistance to mental influence as well as many magical effects. Your Will defense is equal to 10 + class bonus + Charisma modifier.
Touch Attacks: Some attacks disregard armor and parrying attempts. In these cases, the attacker makes an attack roll (either ranged or melee). Unless the target uses Reflex save, or Disrupt save if the attack is a spell, the touch attack automatically hits (in this case the attack roll is made only to determine whether the attack will produce a critical hit).
SAVES
Generally, when you are subject to an attack, you can spend a minor action to make a save and use the save’s result in place of the defense the attack targets. Some attacks don’t target any defense and the only way to avoid them is to make a save.
If you have no minor actions left, you can spend a minor action from your next turn, but you make the save with a –5 penalty.
Like an attack roll, a save is a d20 roll plus a bonus based on your class and level, and an attribute modifier.
Save Types: The three different kinds of saves are Disrupt, Parry, and Reflex:
Disrupt: These saves measure your ability to disrupt spells that you are attacked with. In place of a defense the spell normally targets, you can try to disrupt it with your magical skill. Sometimes a disrupt save is the only way to avoid a particularly nasty spell. To make the save, use this formula: Magic Ability bonus + Intellect modifier + d20 roll.
Parry: These saves test your ability to deflect physical attacks with a weapon or shield. All weapon attacks that target armor defense allow for a parry save instead. Touch attacks cannot be parried. Shields also allow to parry some area attacks, such as fireballs. To make the save, use this formula: Battle Ability bonus + Strength modifier + d20 roll.
Reflex: These saves test your ability to dodge attacks. Most attacks that target armor defense allow for a reflex save instead. Sometimes a reflex save is the only way to avoid an attack. To make the save, use this formula: Reflex save bonus + Dexterity modifier –armor penalty (if any) + d20 roll.
In this preview I give you the basic combat stats. As you can see, this system has both 3e saves and 4e defenses. This is to give players opportunity to approach combat from more tactical angle. Saves are there so characters can spend actions to increase their chances of survival, unless they miscalculate. Choosing a right save for right situation is essential.
Other changes include simplified range increments, off-hand and 2-hand damage, and the return of 3.0 subdual damage (which I found an interesting concept but poorly implemented).
You will notice that every attribute except Wisdom affects exactly one defense or save. This was done to make attributes more balanced against eachother. Also, in an attempt to de-empasize dexterity's role in combat, Armor defense (old AC) is no longer affected by it. Armor is no unaffected by any attribute. It may be controvential, but I want to try it.
From chapter: combat
COMBAT STATISTICS
This section summarizes the statistics that determine success in combat, and then details how to use
ATTACK ROLL
An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent with an attack. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target’s defense (most often Armor defense), you hit and deal damage.
Automatic Hits: A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a critical hit if you beat target’s defense or save by 5 or more with the attack roll.
ATTACK BONUS
Your attack bonus with a melee weapon is:
Battle Ability bonus (BAB) + Strength modifier
Your attack bonus with a ranged weapon is:
Battle Ability bonus (BAB) + Dexterity modifier –5 penalty if the attack is made at maximum range
DAMAGE
When your attack succeeds, you deal damage. The type of weapon used determines the amount of damage you deal.
Damage reduces a target’s current hit points.
Strength Bonus: When you hit with a melee, thrown weapon, a sling, or a bow, add your Strength modifier to the damage result.
Off-Hand Weapon: When you deal damage with a weapon in your off hand, you don’t add your Strength bonus to damage, although you still add the penalty if your Strength is 9 or lower.
Wielding a Weapon Two-Handed: If you wield a one-handed melee weapon in both hands, you add +2 points of damage.
Dexterity Bonus: When you hit with a crossbow or a gun, add your Dexterity modifier to the damage result.
Maximized Damage: Sometimes you maximize damage, such as on a critical hit. Calculate the value of damage as if you have rolled a maximum possible result on all damage dice.
Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon’s normal damage are not maximized.
Subdual Damage: Subdual damage reduces hit points only when the target is not hurt. A hurt character is immune to subdual damage.
Lethal Damage: As opposed to subdual damage, lethal damage reduces hit points regardless of target’s condition. Lethal damage is usually not specifically mentioned – any damage that is not described as subdual is lethal. For example, a fireball spell deals 24 points of damage. Since the damage is not described as subdual, the spell deals 24 points of lethal damage.
DEFENSES
There are three defenses that protect character in a passive manner, providing the attack roll result that an opponent needs to achieve to hit you.
Defense Types: The three different kinds of defenses are Armor, Stamina, and Will:
Armor: Represents how hard it is for opponents to land a solid, damaging blow on you. Your Armor defense is equal to 10 + armor bonus. All armor is more or less unwieldy, causing encumbrance penalty to certain skills. Heavy armor also reduces walk speed and imposes a penalty to Reflex saves.
Stamina: Measures your ability to stand up to physical punishment or attacks against your vitality and health. Your Stamina defense is equal to 10 + class bonus + Constitution modifier.
Will: Reflects your resistance to mental influence as well as many magical effects. Your Will defense is equal to 10 + class bonus + Charisma modifier.
Touch Attacks: Some attacks disregard armor and parrying attempts. In these cases, the attacker makes an attack roll (either ranged or melee). Unless the target uses Reflex save, or Disrupt save if the attack is a spell, the touch attack automatically hits (in this case the attack roll is made only to determine whether the attack will produce a critical hit).
SAVES
Generally, when you are subject to an attack, you can spend a minor action to make a save and use the save’s result in place of the defense the attack targets. Some attacks don’t target any defense and the only way to avoid them is to make a save.
If you have no minor actions left, you can spend a minor action from your next turn, but you make the save with a –5 penalty.
Like an attack roll, a save is a d20 roll plus a bonus based on your class and level, and an attribute modifier.
Save Types: The three different kinds of saves are Disrupt, Parry, and Reflex:
Disrupt: These saves measure your ability to disrupt spells that you are attacked with. In place of a defense the spell normally targets, you can try to disrupt it with your magical skill. Sometimes a disrupt save is the only way to avoid a particularly nasty spell. To make the save, use this formula: Magic Ability bonus + Intellect modifier + d20 roll.
Parry: These saves test your ability to deflect physical attacks with a weapon or shield. All weapon attacks that target armor defense allow for a parry save instead. Touch attacks cannot be parried. Shields also allow to parry some area attacks, such as fireballs. To make the save, use this formula: Battle Ability bonus + Strength modifier + d20 roll.
Reflex: These saves test your ability to dodge attacks. Most attacks that target armor defense allow for a reflex save instead. Sometimes a reflex save is the only way to avoid an attack. To make the save, use this formula: Reflex save bonus + Dexterity modifier –armor penalty (if any) + d20 roll.
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