Michaelholland
First Post
I have a player who has been looking to the future for his character and he decided that once he reaches epic levels he is going to multiclass into the Agent Retriever Prestige Class. So I grab my Epic Level Handbook and look over the requirements for the prestige class to figure out what he needs to do to qualify once he gets to that point. Then I ran into a problem.
One of the requirements of the Agent Retriever is that he/she must be of Lawful Alignment. This seemed a bit strange to me as Agent Retrievers seem very much to me like the kid of people who would act outside of the laws of the land. So I read over the class again to make sure I understand the concept of the class and it only further confuses me.
In the second paragraph of the prestige class description it says that Rangers, bards, and rogues most commonly become Agent Retrievers.
Wait a second!
1. Bards can't be of Lawful alignment. It says so in their class description. I quote, "The spontaneous talent, magic, and lifestyle of the bard are incompatible with a lawful alignment."
So I know something is messed up because a bard can 'never' qualify to be a Agent Retriever yet it is listed as one of the classes most likely to become one.
The bard can gain the skills in a timely manner but then again, they don't qualify in the first place.
2. Rangers can be any alignment but the book says they are 'mostly' chaotic as they "follow the ebb and flow of nature or their own hearts, instead of rigid rules." Okay, a minority of rangers can become Agent Retrievers but it is possible.
Also, for a ranger to gain 15 ranks in Knowledge (the planes), a cross-class skill for them I might remind you, they would need to be a level 27 character (see the chart on page 7 of the ELH to back that point up).
Finally, to gain 24 ranks in Gather Information (another cross-class skill) they would need to be a level 45 character.
3. Rogues can also be any alignment but it does say they are "more likely to be chaotic than lawful." Once again, a small portion of their population can become Agent Retrievers but not many.
For a rogue, they can get the appropriate ranks in Gather Information by level 21.
However, to gain the right ranks in Knowledge (all planes), a cross class skills for them, they must be level 27.
For all, the Track feat isn't hard to get and the ranger has it at level 1.
So how exactly do these three classes most commonly become Agent Retrievers above all other classes? One can't fit the requirements no matter what and the other two aren't likely to have the right alignment and even if they do, they have to wait until a much higher level to pick up the prestige class.
Then again, I haven't looked at the other classes so it might harder for all of them to become an Agent Retriever (with the exception of the bard for whom it is impossible).
Barbarian - Can't be lawful so they are in the same bind as the bard. Plus, those skills are cross-class skills for them as well putting them at level 45 before they qualify.
Cleric - They can fit the alignment restriction but have problems with the skills allowing them to qualify at level 45.
Druid - Druids must be neutral so they are out. Plus, they have the same skill problems.
Fighter - The alignment is possible but the skills still hurt this class putting them at level 45 once again before they can qualify.
Monk - Ah, monks must be Lawful so they definitely fit that ticket but skills are once again a problem. Level 45 for them as well.
Paladin - Almost exactly like the monk. Alignment is right but skills are not. Level 45.
Sorcerer - They favor Chaotic but can be lawful if need be. But the skills are a problem once again. Level 45.
Wizard - Tend to be Lawful so good there. They can have the knowledge (all planes) skill ready by level 12 but still have to wait until level 45 for the gather information.
So in the end, the book is right. Most of the other classes can't qualify until level 45. Then again, neither can the Ranger. This is how it breaks out at how soon a character can qualify based on class.
Level 27 - Rogue
Level 45 - Cleric, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Wizard
Never - Barbarian, Bard, Druid
Yes, rogues can get to Agent Retriever sooner but they have to be the oddball rogue who is Lawful. But I don't see the logic in saying a Ranger and Bard also tend to be Agent Retrievers more often than others. A ranger (who is going outside the norm alignment for a ranger, mind you) can qualify but no sooner any of the other classes in the Level 45 category (a long time to wait for a prestige class if you ask me). Barbarians, bards, and druids can 'never' be an Agent Retriever because of the alignment restrictions.
So after writing quite a bit which I did to prove I had investigated these restrictions and was not just speculating, I really have two questions.
1. Is the Lawful alignment restriction a type and should it really have said Chaotic (an alignment that better represents the classes they say typically take the class)?
2. Should the skill requirements be re-evaluated?
Your thoughts?
P.S. I apologize if this seems like a rant. I just put a lot of thought into it and I am looking for a professional answer. Take that as you will.
One of the requirements of the Agent Retriever is that he/she must be of Lawful Alignment. This seemed a bit strange to me as Agent Retrievers seem very much to me like the kid of people who would act outside of the laws of the land. So I read over the class again to make sure I understand the concept of the class and it only further confuses me.
In the second paragraph of the prestige class description it says that Rangers, bards, and rogues most commonly become Agent Retrievers.
Wait a second!
1. Bards can't be of Lawful alignment. It says so in their class description. I quote, "The spontaneous talent, magic, and lifestyle of the bard are incompatible with a lawful alignment."
So I know something is messed up because a bard can 'never' qualify to be a Agent Retriever yet it is listed as one of the classes most likely to become one.
The bard can gain the skills in a timely manner but then again, they don't qualify in the first place.
2. Rangers can be any alignment but the book says they are 'mostly' chaotic as they "follow the ebb and flow of nature or their own hearts, instead of rigid rules." Okay, a minority of rangers can become Agent Retrievers but it is possible.
Also, for a ranger to gain 15 ranks in Knowledge (the planes), a cross-class skill for them I might remind you, they would need to be a level 27 character (see the chart on page 7 of the ELH to back that point up).
Finally, to gain 24 ranks in Gather Information (another cross-class skill) they would need to be a level 45 character.
3. Rogues can also be any alignment but it does say they are "more likely to be chaotic than lawful." Once again, a small portion of their population can become Agent Retrievers but not many.
For a rogue, they can get the appropriate ranks in Gather Information by level 21.
However, to gain the right ranks in Knowledge (all planes), a cross class skills for them, they must be level 27.
For all, the Track feat isn't hard to get and the ranger has it at level 1.
So how exactly do these three classes most commonly become Agent Retrievers above all other classes? One can't fit the requirements no matter what and the other two aren't likely to have the right alignment and even if they do, they have to wait until a much higher level to pick up the prestige class.
Then again, I haven't looked at the other classes so it might harder for all of them to become an Agent Retriever (with the exception of the bard for whom it is impossible).
Barbarian - Can't be lawful so they are in the same bind as the bard. Plus, those skills are cross-class skills for them as well putting them at level 45 before they qualify.
Cleric - They can fit the alignment restriction but have problems with the skills allowing them to qualify at level 45.
Druid - Druids must be neutral so they are out. Plus, they have the same skill problems.
Fighter - The alignment is possible but the skills still hurt this class putting them at level 45 once again before they can qualify.
Monk - Ah, monks must be Lawful so they definitely fit that ticket but skills are once again a problem. Level 45 for them as well.
Paladin - Almost exactly like the monk. Alignment is right but skills are not. Level 45.
Sorcerer - They favor Chaotic but can be lawful if need be. But the skills are a problem once again. Level 45.
Wizard - Tend to be Lawful so good there. They can have the knowledge (all planes) skill ready by level 12 but still have to wait until level 45 for the gather information.
So in the end, the book is right. Most of the other classes can't qualify until level 45. Then again, neither can the Ranger. This is how it breaks out at how soon a character can qualify based on class.
Level 27 - Rogue
Level 45 - Cleric, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Sorcerer, Wizard
Never - Barbarian, Bard, Druid
Yes, rogues can get to Agent Retriever sooner but they have to be the oddball rogue who is Lawful. But I don't see the logic in saying a Ranger and Bard also tend to be Agent Retrievers more often than others. A ranger (who is going outside the norm alignment for a ranger, mind you) can qualify but no sooner any of the other classes in the Level 45 category (a long time to wait for a prestige class if you ask me). Barbarians, bards, and druids can 'never' be an Agent Retriever because of the alignment restrictions.
So after writing quite a bit which I did to prove I had investigated these restrictions and was not just speculating, I really have two questions.
1. Is the Lawful alignment restriction a type and should it really have said Chaotic (an alignment that better represents the classes they say typically take the class)?
2. Should the skill requirements be re-evaluated?
Your thoughts?
P.S. I apologize if this seems like a rant. I just put a lot of thought into it and I am looking for a professional answer. Take that as you will.
