Agile Riposte question

[hong]

In my (limited) experience Agile Riposte is a very good feat for brick types in d20 Modern, even with the reduced frequency of melee. I'd say it would be OTT in D&D.

 

[Spatula]

If I were to adapt such a thing for D&D, I'd decouple it from Dodge entirely, and instead make it something that comes into effect when you choose the total defense option.

OA has a feat or two like that (you get some kind of bonus if you take total defense and an opponent misses you).

 

[two]

Certainly too powerful

It's definately too powerful, and has strange "ramping up" qualities, in that it gets more powerful at higher levels compared to lower levels, due to the interative nature of attacks and magical defense availability.

For example, vs. a fighter5, who might be expected to hit lower AC's like 15 very often, you might never get a "free" attack from a miss.

On the other hand, vs. a fighter6, whose second attack is at -5, you are almost assured a free attack every round or two. If you AC is not lame, rather is more like 20 by level 5 or higher, then it's almost a guaranteed "free" attack every round (from either the 1st (possibly) or 2nd (more likely)) miss.

Take it up to level 20, given a typical AC, and a fighter hacking away 4 times will almost surely miss once a round (either on the last attack or just from a bad roll).

Throw in "basic" defenses like Mirror Image, Invisiblitly, Blur, Displacement, etc. and your opponents will "miss" you a lot more (even with +100 to attack). Again, these are more likely as levels rise.

Basically, if I could take this feat as a fighter, I would every time.

All the other "free attack" feats are either rare or have problems (rapid shot -2 to hit, cleave is fairly rare, etc.). This one is like, wow. No brainer. Lemme at it.

And yes, it would make any trip specialist with a good AC just, well. Even more sick than sick. Actually almost any "special" attack would be great, for a grapler, sunderer, whatever.

 

[ruleslawyer]

As a veteran of several knife fights, I can tell you that two combatants in a knife fight do not hurl themselves at each other from the get-go and attempt to hack each other to bits. ..

Beg pardon?

Thus, a large portion of the battle involves an extended period of preliminary circling and light probing, which certainly can last far longer than the 6 seconds of a combat round. For somebody go and make 4 attacks in one 6-second round would be incredibly hasty and amount to spending a goodly portion of the round slashing. That's simply not a terribly realistic fighting model.

Funny, I've always thought of it as an abstract fighting model which deals with the "circling and light probing" problem via the hit point mechanism. IMHO, 4 attacks don't represent swing-swing-swing-swing, but rather the ability to make a greater number of effective threats on your opponent in a given time span. After all, it'd be hard to justify hit points in any "realistic" sense if they represent the sheer physical ability to endure blows?

 

[Marimmar]

Everquest D20 made that very Riposte thing something for very high level characters to get. At level 16 or so it's no longer that much of a problem since monsters hit often and getting 4 (for BAB 16) or 5 (from Riposte) attacks in return doesn't really matter that much IMO. Then again Everquest Monsters tend to be a lot tougher than D&D monsters.

~Marimmar

 

[jgsugden]

If you like the concept, but think that the feat will be too strong as written, you could change it as follows:

Agile Riposte
Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, Dodge.
Benefit: If the opponent the character has designated as his or her dodge target (see the Dodge feat) makes a melee attack or melee touch attack against the character and misses, the character gets a +2 (nameless) bonus to all attacks against that target until the end of that character's next turn.

**********************************************************

That makes your counterattacks more agile without giving you extra attacks.

 

[two]

Great solution

If you like the concept, but think that the feat will be too strong as written, you could change it as follows:

Agile Riposte
Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, Dodge.
Benefit: If the opponent the character has designated as his or her dodge target (see the Dodge feat) makes a melee attack or melee touch attack against the character and misses, the character gets a +2 (nameless) bonus to all attacks against that target until the end of that character's next turn.

**********************************************************

That makes your counterattacks more agile without giving you extra attacks.

Excellent solution. Dodge makes you harder to hit, slightly increasing misses... would be an excellent feat for the two weapon fighter/dex fighter, which at the cost of a feat gets him closer and closer to parity with a vanilla Barbarian+Greatsword (yawn) combo.

Neatly cancelling out Two Weapon Fighting penalties, and making it less painful to get into full attack range (you gotta get him to miss to full attack at +0 penalty with two weapons)... nice.

Not overpowered, good syngeries, good for a swashbucklereque dude... etc. Me like.

 

[MarauderX]

Some feats to consider:

Defensive Throw
General - REQ: Dex 13+, Improved Unarmed Strike, Dodge, Improved Trip, Combat Refexes
If the opponent you have chosen to receive your AC bonus from Dodge attacks you and misses, you can make an immediate improved trip attack against that opponent. This attempt counts against your allowed attacks of opportunity this round. Oriental Adventures, pg 62.


Defensive Strike
General - REQ: Int 13+, Expertise, Dex 13+, Dodge
If an opponent attacks you and misses while you are using the total defense action, you can attack that opponent on your next turn with a +4 bonus on your attack roll. You gain no bonus against an opponent that does not attack you or against an opponent that attacks and does not miss. Oriental Adventures, pg 62.


Each of these has more feat requisites and gives more powerful options (opponent is prone with the former, +4 attack for the latter). I think the feat may be a bit too much as it stands, as any monk, fighter or rogue would take it in a heartbeat over the above feats since they get an attack instead of a trip or having to use a total defense action.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

I think adding Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, and Int 13+ to the prerequisites for Agile Riposte make it a more solid feat. The benefit's the same, but it more strongly reinforces that it's a feat for Duelists and "smart" fighters and it has a larger feat investment before it could be taken.

I would limit Agile Riposte to either normal attacks, since there are feats for tripping (Defensive Throw) and disarming (no clue) unsuccessful attackers.