AI/LLMs AI art bans are going to ruin small 3rd party creators

[bsss]

I love people who make things!

See my previous post, though, re the vital role of original thought and imagination in defining creativity vs production.

An assembly line worker might have loads of training and skill but probably the last thing you want on the job is any creativity or variance or originality; instead the true skill is to correctly do the exact same thing every time, as per instructions and training. And out of that process comes a car, which that worker helped make but did not help create.

I honestly do not understand the point you are trying to make anymore. For a moment I thought you were trying to argue that writing an AI prompt is creativity, same as writing sheet music, but now it sounds like you're arguing that reproductions or transformations of things --- all kinds of things, no matter how different they are or how they might be transformed --- are all lumped into an anti-creative void, because assembly lines? And that means what regarding gen AI (or humans for that matter)?

 

[soviet]

One can be creative (which includes imaginitive) as all heck and yet still not know how to put that creativity into practice.

I can dream up all kinds of great images in my head but haven't got the art-making ability to put them on paper or screen. That's where I need some sort of processor, be it human or machine, to do it for me to my instructions.

I commissioned dozens of art pieces from the same professional RPG artist, Storn Cook, for two RPG books I published.

Maybe my experience is different to other people's, but the way I approached that was absolutely NOT 'here is a complete description of what I want you to draw, like sheet music for a musician or a recipe for a cook'. He's the artist, not me. I actively wanted his input and creativity, that was the whole point of paying him! It was also half the fun of making the book.

Here are some examples from the art brief I gave him:

CHAPTER HEADERS​

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These pieces are specifically designed to act as headers/bookmarks for the most important chapters of the book.​

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They should take up half a page each.​

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5. WORLD BUILDING​

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This comes from one of your own ideas Storn: “A GM putting blocks and shapes into a world over countries, stuff flying around in bits… sorta GM type leaning over a fantastic Sims layout or Civilization type land”. The only thing I would add to that is that there should be multiple people overlooking the layout, to represent the fact that the players create the setting of this game on a more or less equal footing with the GM.​

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6. CHARACTER GENERATION​

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This was one of your ideas: “A PC type as a schematic showing various aspects of character generation.. General Abilities, Traits, Flaws etc.” I’m not sure exactly how that would look but it’s definitely something to explore. Another possibility is to base something around Da Vinci’s famous Vitruvian Man diagram (the one with the man standing at a T position and also an X position, superimposed together in a circle. Maybe combine the two ideas?).​

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7. SUPPORTING CAST​

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An archetypal supporting cast for a fantasy game all huddled together ‘for the camera’. For example, a dwarf wizard, a scrawny young squire holding a sword, a floating skull, an innkeeper, a king, a barbarian, and a cloaked rogue/spy type character (could be an antagonist of some kind). I’m flexible though – only the floating skull is mandatory.​

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8. CONFLICT RESOLUTION​

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Two characters engaged in a hand-to-hand struggle – both from the Silver Age 1960s superhero campaign example. On one side we have ‘The Spirit of Liberty’ – a winged all-american hero, flag on chest, eagle mask helmet (face covered with a beak Hawkman-style), try to make sure he doesn’t look too much like the captain america style guy you did for the silver age campaign picture. On the other side we have EITHER ‘Grindstone’, a grey rocky strong guy hero made out of stone. maybe looks slightly demonic/gargoyle-like? – OR – ‘The Red Spectre’ – a cloaked figure (wearing a suit? evil looking robes?) who is able to turn insubstantial, possess people’s minds, and manipulate tendrils of gaseous/shadowy energy. Choose whichever of those two baddies you have the best visual ideas for.​

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There should be a caption underneath saying: ‘The Spirit of Liberty vs. [whichever enemy you use]’​

 

[Zaukrie]

I'm not a musician, but I'm not sure such a thing is possible - to play from sheet music with no interpretation whatsoever.

You are correct.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Sheet music is a play aid for a particular composition. If you think musicians working from sheet music are just processing information, I’d suggest you listen to two professional symphonic performance recordings. At the very least, you’ll notice they will not have the same running times. If there is a featured soloist, there will be more differences.

As for being unable to play without sheet music, that can be down to several reasons. The musician may be unable to improvise- a related but distinct skill from competence at playing an instrument. Or the musician may be skilled but inexperienced, and might not have much- if any- music memorized.

And, FWIW, there’s a hoary old joke:

Q: How do you get a rock guitarist to stop playing?

A: Put sheet music in front of them.

 

[Brendan Byrd]

I love people who make things!

Why am I reminded of “friends” and “family” who consider themselves entitled to freebies, or below cost pricing, because they have the mistaken belief that creativity itself is a complete reward, and anything else is selfish. That you should be grateful for the “opportunity” or “exposure”.
Non-tangibles neither feed nor clothe, much less house.

An assembly line worker might have loads of training and skill but probably the last thing you want on the job is any creativity or variance or originality; instead the true skill is to correctly do the exact same thing every time, as per instructions and training. And out of that process comes a car, which that worker helped make but did not help create.

Apples and oranges.

Has it ever occurred to you that your (unionized or contract) assembly-line employee was paid while being trained on the job?

Folks in “the arts” generally pay to acquire their training. That investment only works out if you can sell your “art” and make a living.

 

[Lanefan]

I honestly do not understand the point you are trying to make anymore. For a moment I thought you were trying to argue that writing an AI prompt is creativity, same as writing sheet music, but now it sounds like you're arguing that reproductions or transformations of things --- all kinds of things, no matter how different they are or how they might be transformed --- are all lumped into an anti-creative void, because assembly lines? And that means what regarding gen AI (or humans for that matter)?

I'll try explaining again.

I write stuff. Lots and lots of stuff. Been doing it for decades, mostly poems and song lyrics.

If while lying in bed one morning I think of a good line or a cool rhyme or whatever, that's the moment when creativity is occurring.

If-when I write those thoughts down later exactly as invented, that's just production: the actual creativity has already occurred. If, however, during the process of writing them down I tweak them or add to them or etc. then that's creativity running side-along with production.

What this means with AI: the creativity occurs when the prompter first imagines a desired image and refines it in their head. After that, it's all tool use (i.e. production) to make a physical image that matches what the prompter has in mind.

Contrast this with someone just putting in prompts at random and seeing what the program churns out. It's arguable there's no real creativity involved there at all at any point even though something - whatever it may be - is being produced.

 

[Umbran]

An assembly line worker might have loads of training and skill but probably the last thing you want on the job is any creativity or variance or originality; instead the true skill is to correctly do the exact same thing every time, as per instructions and training. And out of that process comes a car, which that worker helped make but did not help create.

Not as correct as you might think.

Development of The Toyota Way included giving line workers the power to stop the line and solve problems at the time they happened, using their superior knowledge of what was actually happening on the line. The Toyota Way is what made Toyota into the most reliable car brand on the planet.