D&D 4E AICN Massawyrm's 4E Review - Part 3

[ThirdWizard]

I play on a gridded whiteboard, so I plan on making notes on the board where everyone can see. Red mark for bloodied, blue mark for marked.

 

[BryonD]

Honestly, I think the fears of people losing track of who's under what conditions are overstated. It's not hard.

Am I the only one who sees a whole lot of irony here?

In item after item regarding 3E the attack has been that "my players are very smart and it isn't that XYZ is 'too hard', it is just that having to keep up with it was a distraction. But suddenly when the same type issue is raised regarding 4E the defenses that just couldn't possibly suffice in 3E are instantly transformed into a slam dunk solution.

Sure, it could be done in 3E. But in 3E, I can think of at least three or four ways to go about it by the rules. My experience in 4E is that such things tend to be simpler and easier to adjudicate, with less room for DM/player disagreement over the rules.

Are you actually saying that it would have taken you 1 second longer to resolve this in 3e? Since I first saw this as an example I've had to shake my head. It strongly colors my view of the opinions being expressed when someone sees this as an issue worth even mentioning.

There are actions I wouldn't even try in 3E, because I didn't feel like dealing with the rules discussions, or because they weren't worth trying without the proper feat. (In the table example, above, even though I was 10 feet away from the enemy and under the table, I know of some truly nitpicky DMs who would've tried to give them an AoO because I was making a "trip attack.") In 4E, the basic combat system encompasses pretty much all of them with its "Attack vs. a chosen defense" mechanic.

Wow. I'm really sorry your experiences with 3e were not up on the level of what I have enjoyed.

Of course I've yet to see a bad DM suddenly change his stripes in a new system. The specific ways it comes out may change. But the nature remains.

 

[malraux]

Am I the only one who sees a whole lot of irony here?

In item after item regarding 3E the attack has been that "my players are very smart and it isn't that XYZ is 'too hard', it is just that having to keep up with it was a distraction. But suddenly when the same type issue is raised regarding 4E the defenses that just couldn't possibly suffice in 3E are instantly transformed into a slam dunk solution.

To me, there seems to be a difference in the kinds of things I'll have to track. In 3e, I had to track both numerical bonuses and bonus types. So, for example, if I get a Hero's Feast in the morning, and then, in combat, the bard starts his song, I couldn't tell you right now what the bonus types are so I have no idea what overlaps vs stacks. In 4e, the things to track are more binary. Have I used an ability today? Did I mark that monster? The types of things to track are things that I can remember better.