Pathfinder 1E Alchemist: Man of Science or Fledgling Caster

[Dannorn]

So after getting the idea from this thread I've been working on a homebrew setting where magic is only available through innate ability (Sorcerers and Bards), extra planar connections (Witch or Summoner), or divine providence (all the divine spellcasters). Basically it'd be a setting where there are no Wizards, people who master the arcane through study, and potentially the Magus would be out as well or would require tweaking (have heard of the Magus but haven't read any of the material yet).

Now I'm torn on how to handle the Alchemist, because I want to keep it in, so here's what I'm thinking.

Alchemist as a scientist: The Alchemist is a normal person with no magical ability or connection who uses alchemy to mimic the effects of magic. Class functions largely as normal but loses Brew Potion and the Dispelling Bombs discovery as well as any other discoveries or extracts that require interaction with magic (Identify for example). They'd also lose the ability to identify potions with Craft (Alchemy). The upside is that they can create and use extracts, mutagens, and bombs even in areas where magic doesn't work (anti-magic field for example) and wouldn't be effected by Dispel Magic.

Alchemist as fledgling caster: The Alchemist is capable of using magic, but is too weak to actually cast. This option would work exactly the same as outlined in the Advanced Player's Guide.

The main difference would be flavour; some lands in the setting are ruled by magic, others outlaw it, etc. and in each of these places a weak caster augmenting their abilities would be viewed differently than a non-caster mimicking magic.

Or should I just drop the Alchemist along with the Wizard and (potentially) Magus?

 

[Sheepat]

You said that magic comes through innate ability or through pacts from an outside source, so you could take the latter option? They could concentrate mainly on their potion making, but their magic is taken by little strands left by more powerful supernatural entities in the past, sort of like they're using up the leftovers left behind. They can then use the leftovers to augment their potions (If I'm reading the alchemist class right)

Out of the two ideas you provided, it would be rather interesting if they were men of science. They would probably congregate in lands where magic is outlawed, and they would outright scorn those who use magic, saying that through hard work and chemicals they recreated magic, damaging its mystique, or something.

Just my two cents

 

[Ahnehnois]

I'd drop the Alchemist. It's too magic-y and not worth the trouble to fix.

 

[biotech66]

por que no las dos?



If magic is part of the Pathfinder setting, then understanding how magic works must be a part of their physics and biology sciences. Magic would be real, but you mot likely could find multiple ways to go about using and obtaining the same power.

 

[Dannorn]

You said that magic comes through innate ability or through pacts from an outside source, so you could take the latter option? They could concentrate mainly on their potion making, but their magic is taken by little strands left by more powerful supernatural entities in the past, sort of like they're using up the leftovers left behind. They can then use the leftovers to augment their potions (If I'm reading the alchemist class right)

I was actually thinking along the lines of lumping innate arcane casters into one group just varying degrees of power, Sorcerers are the most powerful, Bards are capable but limited, and Alchemists are guys who have magic but can't even cast 0-level spells, so they combine what little magic they have with alchemy to get their extracts, bombs, and mutagens. Kinda like this idea more though, the idea that they've learned to harness residual magic and while they can't conjure with it themselves they can infuse alchemical concoctions with it to give them power.

Out of the two ideas you provided, it would be rather interesting if they were men of science. They would probably congregate in lands where magic is outlawed, and they would outright scorn those who use magic, saying that through hard work and chemicals they recreated magic, damaging its mystique, or something.

Just my two cents

I admit I like this idea more because in a world where you can't use magic without being born with it or making some kind of pact, what would normal people do to protect themselves against those with magic? They'd probably try and figure out ways to match their power through other means. Another thought I had if I went this way would be to have gunslingers be far more common in areas where magic is outlawed or even just uncommon, and nearly non-existent in others, probably as outlaw or dissident forces.

I'd drop the Alchemist. It's too magic-y and not worth the trouble to fix.

I'd agree with you on making the Alchemist just a dude, it's hard to explain how things like Enlarge Person or Giant Form work without magic, but as a weak caster I really don't have to change anything other than flavour as is appropriate.

por que no las dos?

If magic is part of the Pathfinder setting, then understanding how magic works must be a part of their physics and biology sciences. Magic would be real, but you mot likely could find multiple ways to go about using and obtaining the same power.

I had thought of this, either way I was thinking Alchemists would take the place of Wizards as the scholarly pursuers of magic. Though if we think about this in terms of "real life" if magic is something a small group of people are just naturally capable of, or gain access to through communion with beings of the beyond, they really don't have any reason to study it, one side knows exactly how it works and for the other it's no different than breathing or walking, and those less scrupulous individuals capable of it would have a vested interest in keeping the common rabble from studying it.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

In the real world, alchemists WERE scientists. They played a large part in developing the scientific method. Some of their base beliefs about the world have been proven wrong, but that's true of all generations of scientists.

if you want them to have particular powers without using magic, just alter the fundamental laws of physics and chemistry in your world in ways that facilitate that.