Alchemy

I was thinking of making an Alchemist, using alchemic items when I noticed, that frankly alchemy sucks at mid - higher levels.
Does anyone know of any homebrew or varient rules that make alchemy more useful?

Thanks
 

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I was thinking of making an Alchemist, using alchemic items when I noticed, that frankly alchemy sucks at mid - higher levels.
Does anyone know of any homebrew or varient rules that make alchemy more useful?

Thanks

I've always wanted a good rules set to allow alchemy to be used to brew potions without having the spell on your spell list (or even ability as a caster at all). The reason is that this has been a major feature of my homebrew campaign since 1e, so that I've always assumed NPC's had this ability, but have never gotten around to formalizing it for higher levels.

Of the cuff, to brew a potion with alchemy:

You don't need the 'Brew Potion' or 'Brew Elixer' Feat.

The DC is 10 + 5/spell level. You can't take either 10 or 20. Failure ruins the ingredients. Failure by 5 or less is a critical failure that results in an accident (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing). An accident produces a hazard (explosion, poisonous gas cloud, an ochre jelly, looks real but its a poison, etc.) with a CR equal to the spell level, if the alchemist fails a DC 10 Wisdom check and otherwise produces an annoying (possibly comical) effect - goop explosion, fills room with soap bubbles, creates a lingering foul stench, ruins clothing, stains skin, etc.

Cost is 150% 'Brew Potion', and time to produce the potion is 1 day + 1 day/spell level. On the bright side, XP cost is only 50% - typically paid in drops of the Alchemist's own blood. The XP cost is only paid if the potion is successful. You still must make choices as if you were casting the spell as with the Brew Potion feat.

You can brew large batches: +2 DC per additional does in a brew batch. This is also hazardous and reckless, increase CR of hazards by 1 and apply a circumstance penalty to your the wisdom check of -2 for each portion of 4 doses in the batch beyond the first.

You can brew quickly: +5 DC to brew in a like number of hours, +10 DC to brew in a like number of minutes. This is also hazardous and reckless, increase CR of hazards by 1 for brewing in rounds and by 2 if brewing in minutes. Apply a circumstance penalty of -2 to the wisdom check if brewing in hours, and of -5 if brewing in minutes.

You must have a recipe in order to brew a potion without a spell. Recipe's are closely guarded secrets. You must be on friendly or better relations with someone who has one to even be allowed to buy a recipe. Cost is generally 100 gp/level of spell (50 gp for a cantrip recipe). Recipes may also be obtained as treasure in rare and forgotten tomes, written in spellbooks, etc.

All recipes contains a small amount of ingredients from at least 1 hazard with a CR equal to the spell level. In larger towns, such ingredients are usually obtainable from dealers in arcane paraphenalia and may be bought along side the herbs and chemicals required to brew the potion. However, your DM may rule that there is a shortage in this good (particularly if the PC brews large batches of higher level spells regularly) and may have to find his own supply. An idependent supply of the main ingredient properly procured and stored reduces the cost of the potion by 50%. Storage is usually a matter of a Craft (herbalism), Craft (taxidermy), or Alchemy skill check with a DC of 15, depending if the material is animal, vegetable or mineral (including organic poisons and other extracts).

A recipe takes up one page plus one page per spell level. You can recall from memory any recipe you've previously completed without looking at a book with an Intelligence check equal to the DC of brewing the potion, or automatically if you have the Eidetic Memory or similar feat. You must be trained in Alchemy to read a recipe.

That looks ok to start with. All other rules as per creating an alchemical good. No warranty implied, as this isn't tested. However, it has been floating around in my 'to do list' for years.
 

Poisonmaking is an interesting part of the alchemist, although it's somewhat connected to being the bad guy. Poisons can be quite strong, but they are usually very expensive, and as such a an alchemist can be very useful in a group for making powerful poisons. Book of Vile Darkness has rules on poisonmaking - probably the least useless part of that book, except for the Vermin Lord which i kinda like. Anyways, it's basically just Craft (Poisonmaking), so it's not exactly alchemy, but I'd consider allowing alchemy to be used instead, either with the requirement of a few ranks in Knowledge (Nature) or Profession (Herbalist), or with a small penalty to the roll.


You could even allow a +10 to the DC of creation to increase either DC by +2 or the dice size by one.

Take for example Huge Scorpion Venom. It forces a DC 26 check to avoid 1d8 strength damage as INITIAL damage - that should make most BBEG's a bit nervous. The drawback is that a single dose costs 1200 gold pieces, but for an alchemist with the raw materials, the cost is 1/6th - so 200gp. However, you'd have to get yourself a dead huge scorpion, which could be a problem. It has a DC 25 check to create - so a focused alchemist should be able to safely make them by level 5, assuming a natural 5, masterwork tools and two assistants.

When you kill that rampaging collossal scorpion, you can make yourself some poison too... Which force a DC 54 checks or 2d8 initial strength damage. That's a poison a red dragon great wyrm can only save from on a natural 20.

Arms and Equipment Guide also has some additional alchemical items.
 

Weapons and other equipment come in 3 forms: Mundane, Masterwork and Magical.

With that in mind, you might also want to have mundane versions of the items be the ones in the books, masterwork versions having higher DCs or other intensified effects, and let the Brew Potion feat synergize with Alchemy in interesting ways.

For instance, "masterwork" alchemists' fire might burn longer with a more intense heat...or you might even have different AF formulae for different tasks...like one that burns invisibly (like the fuel in Indy cars) so you can set fires at night that won't be seen.

And when you add Brew Potion to the mix (no pun intended), you can get effects that are actually magical. Magical Alchemists' Fire, for instance, might not be extinguishable except with other magic, or might not burn its creator.

As for poisons? The flipside of poisons is drugs. In HERO, they assert that if you can kill something with a power, other debilitating effects like transformations should be no more expensive. So, if you can create a poison, you should be able to create a similarly powerful drug (anesthetic/hypnotic/painkiller) with the right ingredients. You should get synergies with Heal and Herbalism type skills.

Don't forget to glean inspiration from all the nasty things that can were cooked up by RW alchemists and chemists...like gunpowder & thermite. Now, you might not want RW gunpowder & thermite in your game, but you could have things like Alchemical powdered "thermite" that can burn/melt stone or metal, but only burns one round...and can't harm flesh. Alchemical "gunpowder" might give you something akin to a pyrotechnics effect with some minimal damage, but not be able to actually explode.
 

Poisonmaking is an interesting part of the alchemist, although it's somewhat connected to being the bad guy. Poisons can be quite strong, but they are usually very expensive, and as such a an alchemist can be very useful in a group for making powerful poisons.

I agree. However, some DM's will enforce alignment issues with the use of poisons. In particular, LG and NG characters are likely to consider it dishonorable and resist using poisons against intelligent freewilled creatures.\

Like you, I would consider Alchemy to be Craft(Poisonmaking), and in general I consider Alchemy to be the craft skill for virtually all chemical production (yet another way that 3.0 is superior to 3.5) including dyes, varnishs, paints, laquers, poisons and medicines.

but I'd consider allowing alchemy to be used instead, either with the requirement of a few ranks in Knowledge (Nature) or Profession (Herbalist), or with a small penalty to the roll.

I tend to use secondary skills Knowledge (Nature) and Craft (Herbalism) as skills for the collection and storage of alchemical ingredients. You can use the application of these skills to provide the ingredients for a potion without the need to purchase them. Of course, this takes time the character might not have. In the case of poisons, it involves the collection of poison. Alchemy is then used to alter the poison to make it suitable for long term storage or weaponize it so that it can be applied to blades and stick, or that it can be placed in a drink without displaying an odor, taste, or discoloration. The DC of weaponizing a poison would depend directly on its saving throw.

However, you'd have to get yourself a dead huge scorpion, which could be a problem.

Always a limiting factor, but it does change the player's perception of what consitutes 'treasure'.

I should note a balancing factors. The poison of a large creature is not actually more toxic (necessarily) than that of a small creature. The high DC is due to dosage. If you take poison from a larger creature, the DC of poisons is reduced by 2 per size class 'up'. The converse is true for smaller creatures, the difficulty being you need large numbers of them to harvest enough poison for a medium sized dose.
 

I like where this is going, Celebrim, you have some nice ideas. An idea I have is to play a focused alchemist, without being a spellcaster. This may need either a new class, or a alchemy related feat, perhaps additionally giving a bonus to related skills or something.
 

If you're going to be a focused alchemist, you'd still need some other deal too. While alchemy can provide SOME in and out of combat use, it won't be enough to warrant your existance within the group.

What class where you aiming for, or do you intend to create one? I'd say a rogue is pretty much the only non-spellcasting core class with enough skill points and the right class skills to pull this off, and it might be well-suited for it's roll in combat too.
 


I'm a fan of using existing material as much as possible. Making yet another new system of alchemy or whatnot is messy and runs considerable risks of being unbalanced as hell.

Houserule: Skills as caster levels
Certain skill ranks 'count' as caster levels to qualify for a craft feat. Alchemy, for example, permits learning Brew Potion and Craft Wondrous Items. Wondrous Items must be in the form of elixirs and similar.

As a noncaster, you have a recipebook. You can fill it with sor/wiz spells, cleric spells, and druid spells. Transcribing a spell into the book is handled like wizards adding spells to their spellbook. Once transcribed, you 'know' the spell for magic item purposes.

Your sorcerer/wizard caster level, for the purposes of whether you can learn the recipe, is your ranks in Knowledge (arcana).
Cleric, Knowledge (religion).
Druid, Knowledge (nature).

So an Alchemist with a decent Knowledge (nature) would be somewhat of an herbalist, able to make a variety of useful potions for curing ailments and infusing with natural might.


One might complain that this cuts into the role of casters, but a caster can do this stuff with 0 skill investment, has more options for Craft Wondrous Items, and doesn't have to blow cash on spells he can't actually cast.
 

I have an alchemy system in my Nexus d20 game. Basically I treated it as a temporary version of enchanting. All the effects were things like potions and such. They have limited shelf life so you can't produce a whole lot and mess with game balance. I have a bunch of different potions listed.

Alchemy - Nexus D20 Wiki
 

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