Alignment Differences?

[Asmor]

I came to a conclusion. They didn't get rid of Chaotic Good and they didn't get rid of Lawful Evil. They got rid of Neutral Good and Neutral Evil.

4e Evil = 3e Lawful Evil
4e Good = 3e Chaotic Good

I think the system's a lot easier to swallow that way, and I like it.

I also vastly prefer unaligned to true neutral. There are certainly places where true neutral is appropriate, but for the vast majority of cases where the other alignments don't apply, unaligned makes more sense. True neutral is an actual alignment, it's a statement of beliefs and motivations. Unaligned is a lack thereof.

 

[Merkuri]

I came to a conclusion. They didn't get rid of Chaotic Good and they didn't get rid of Lawful Evil. They got rid of Neutral Good and Neutral Evil.

I agree with pretty much all Asmor said. I prefer to think of it as that they lumped Chaotic Good and Neutral Good into just Good because the really important thing is whether you're Lawful Good or whether you're just Good. It was always really hard to put my finger down on what exactly Neutral Good was. Now I don't have to worry about it.

I think they purposefully trimmed down the system and removed many of the alignments so that people don't stress over their alignments as much. Some people couldn't help but think of alignments as straight jackets. They still could be seen as straight jackets, I guess, but they're much larger, roomier straight jackets for the most part. You used to have to choose between six alignments in most cases (all the Goods and Neutrals), now you just have three (Lawful Good, Good, and Unaligned). I think it's a lot easier to decide what category your character falls under, especially since the PHB seems to stress that your alignment is a conscious choice and represents which "team" you're fighting for.

And I really really love the concept of "unaligned" instead of neutral. Thanks to druids and The Balance there were a lot of folks who thought that all neutral NPCs were purposefully neutral and believed in The Balance. This method of thought irked me to no end because it left no room for people who just didn't care. The fact that they call it unaligned I think helps stress that most people who are unaligned just haven't decided between the two sides.

 

[Blackrat]

I came to a conclusion. They didn't get rid of Chaotic Good and they didn't get rid of Lawful Evil. They got rid of Neutral Good and Neutral Evil.

4e Evil = 3e Lawful Evil
4e Good = 3e Chaotic Good

Yeah, I figured it like this too. It feels more logical to me. And the descriptions of the new alignment seem like that way too.

 

[WayneLigon]

I came to a conclusion. They didn't get rid of Chaotic Good and they didn't get rid of Lawful Evil. They got rid of Neutral Good and Neutral Evil.

4e Evil = 3e Lawful Evil
4e Good = 3e Chaotic Good

This is what happens when people actually read the text carefully, instead of skimming it and filling in every third word with what they either think they know or want to see on that page.

I like the simplified alignment system. I'd like it more if it were just Good/Unaligned/Evil. What I'd like even more than that would be to just ditch the whole thing. It doesn't add much and causes too much arguement.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

I like the 3.x version of alignment. The symetry that the nine points have appeals to me and how cosmic beings are linked to the alignments. And in my experience alignment has never caused a problem at the table because of restricting player actions. I've always played them as general nature of a character that can be strayed from.

I don't like the 4th Edition version because it seems to me like they didn't pick a side. I think they should have either gotten rid of alignment entirely or left it as it was, instead of leaving some things unchanged while merging others.

 

[MrApothecary]

Well, I've never really seen Alignments as a straightjacket, more as a label of who you are and how you can generally be expected to act. It isn't too bad if you set clear definitions of Alignments at the beginning of the game.

 

[delericho]

I like the 3e alignment system. I hate the 4e system. If they felt the need to simplify alignments, and especially to remove (almost) all game-rule effects, I wish they'd just removed alignment entirely.

However, my dislike for the new alignments is not that they've removed four of the previous positions (perhaps five - there is now no alignment for an active 'keeper of the balance' - previously a subset of Neutral). Rather, it's that they've encoded 'team-shirt' alignments into the game for the first time. I'm really not a fan.

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, I'd actually prefer it if there was no alignment system.

The old alignment system was prone to misunderstandings and generate long discussions about what is and what isn't in line with a particular alignment.

For my 2E Darksun I actually wrote several paragraphs for every alignment to provide answers to moral questions common to the setting, like: How do I think about slaves/sorcerer kings/murder/survival/etc. This helped. A bit.

For my 3E campaign I only allowed the top left corner of the alignment spectrum (LG, NG, LN, NN) because I really didn't want to deal much with alignment issues. It made sense since all pcs had a common background (members of the city guard) and allowed me to concentrate on what I consider the fun elements of the game rather than infighting and quarrels, that were typical of several older campaigns I had DMed or participated in as a player.

I don't see much of an improvement in the 4E system. I'll use it as written, i.e. with the default assumption that no pc is of evil alignment. The way I see it, they've just merged several of the old alignments, so
- LG & LN became LG,
- NG & CG became G,
- NN became Unaligned,
- LE & NE became E, and
- CN & CE became CE.
That's also how I'll explain it to my players, should anyone wonder where his/her favorite alignment went.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Rather, it's that they've encoded 'team-shirt' alignments into the game for the first time.

What are team-shirt alignments?

 

[Lord Xtheth]

I picked up the PHB and eventually came across the alignment section

"If you chose an alignment..."

This popped out at me as I looked at it, and as a DM I decided to throw alignments out the window. I tell my players "if you want an alignment, just play the alignment. It's not a rule anymore, it doesn't do anything in game anymore, so you may as well not worry about it."

And honestly, everyone in my playing group couldn't be happier.