D&D 4E Alignment hint about 4E...or not?

[BryonD]

My theory is that alignments may become more like subtypes are now.

So PCs generally won't have a set alignment, but a demon can still be implicitly *EVIL*.
This would still keep mechanical effects, but they would be far less pervasive.

It would also be cool if your 1st level cleric is a "good guy", but could potentially become *GOOD* eventually.

Maybe a paladin (a good paladin) can still detect evil. But the mugger or even murderer across the way does not show up. A demon, however, would be seen. Though since paladins are not just good now, the detect thing may go away regardless.

I think it would be cool if your actions can end up defining your alignment. Imagine a fighter that is so bad he becomes EVIL. Maybe there are some perks, like access to feats or powers, but he is also stuck with being detecable. Could be interesting. It also adds to things like minions.

 

[Gloombunny]

There are other ways to do the holy avenger, but I agree that if it's true the profane bonus is gone.

Edit: More significantly, IMO, it changes the paladin abilities in all sorts of ways. No detect evil and smite evil, for instance, and opens up the possibility of paladins of all sorts of alignments. Rather than bonuses against a particular alignment, they would have to have abilities that work differently.

Detect evil can still be around; it'll just be "detect undead and demons" instead. Smite evil can just be smite instead.

 

[Baby Samurai]

My theory is that alignments may become more like subtypes are now.

But the thing is, in the Spined Devil stats there is no mention of alignment whatsoever – Medium Immortal Humanoid (Devil).

 

[Baby Samurai]

Detect evil can still be around; it'll just be "detect undead and demons" instead.

Exactly, like the spirit shaman's detect spirits ability.

Much better than the campaign stifling, encounter ruining, DM headache that is detect evil…

 

[Gargoyle]

My theory is that alignments may become more like subtypes are now.

So PCs generally won't have a set alignment, but a demon can still be implicitly *EVIL*.
This would still keep mechanical effects, but they would be far less pervasive.

That would work well for me. (edited for less stupidity)

It would also be cool if your 1st level cleric is a "good guy", but could potentially become *GOOD* eventually.

This could be interesting, but I would hope they'd save it for a non-core book....I think the topic deserves a lot of room.

Maybe a paladin (a good paladin) can still detect evil. But the mugger or even murderer across the way does not show up. A demon, however, would be seen. Though since paladins are not just good now, the detect thing may go away regardless.

I'm personally hoping that detect evil is gone regardless of what else they do with the pally but I hope smite evil stays in some improved form.

I think it would be cool if your actions can end up defining your alignment. Imagine a fighter that is so bad he becomes EVIL. Maybe there are some perks, like access to feats or powers, but he is also stuck with being detecable. Could be interesting. It also adds to things like minions.

Again, I think this is an interesting concept but it deserves a lot more pages than I think it would get in the core rules. Sort of like a new Book of Vile Darkness, with perhaps less vileness than the original and more darkness.

 

[Gargoyle]

Detect evil can still be around; it'll just be "detect undead and demons" instead. Smite evil can just be smite instead.

That sounds conflicted...it can still be around but it can be something else?

I get what you're saying though, and I agree, it can be altered to fit the new mechanics and still retain the same flavor. Bryon's idea about the evil subtype would work for instance.

But even so, it would be a change. Paladins wouldn't be able to smite the chaotic evil pickpocket, they'd have to reserve that for the EVIL vampire. Not bad IMO, but certainly not the same thing.

 

[Zogmo]

Found a few things previously posted here about alignment. Hope this helps anyone who hasn't read it yet.


This first one was taken from ashockney who was at the 4E Q&A seminar:

Q: Will alignment be a factor in the new edition?

A: It’s not going to be what it is now. Alignment is part of the story, part of the character. It is a useful shorthand, but too many books and too many players mistake it for limitation. We want to treat alignment as something bigger than that. We won’t get rid of it, but we don’t want it to be a replacement for character and personality.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=204434
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Christopher Perkins blog:

I had a lot of people approach me (at the 4E seminar) with 4E questions. One of the most memorable ones was,

Q:"Will 4E have paladins that aren't lawful good?"

A: The answer is yes. Hell, you can have evil paladins of Asmodeus in 4E. More on that later.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13461548&postcount=2
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Bruce Cordell interviewed on 4E by Zander at GenCon UK

Q: What changes are in store for alignment?

A: In the end, there's still alignment. There will be some changes though. There'll be some tweaks... Even non-gamers know what a 12th level lawful good paladin is.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=206078

 

[FourthBear]

Hmmm, the Bruce Cordell interview seems to indicate that familiarity is a considered factor for the 4e alignment system: "There'll be some tweaks... Even non-gamers know what a 12th level lawful good paladin is." My only fear in this is that they don't change it enough or eliminate it entirely. If I never have to hear another tiresome, pointless argument about if Character X is Lawful/Chaotic, rather than simply discussing the merits and motivations for his characterization, I'll be very grateful.

 

[Baby Samurai]

My only fear in this is that they don't change it enough or eliminate it entirely.

Yeah, at this point I'm afraid they won't let this crap legacy item go completely.

The Spined Devil stats give me hope.

 

[BryonD]

This could be interesting, but I would hope they'd save it for a non-core book....I think the topic deserves a lot of room.

I agree.