D&D General Why do people like Alignment?

[Maxperson]

In fact, I'm pretty sure there are multiple times when one or more deities commandeer an oracle in order to shape the world to have the result they want. IIRC, Venus/Aphrodite specifically directs the Oracle at Delphi to tell Psyche's (unnamed) royal parents to sacrifice her, meaning she quite literally takes control of prophecy to make something happen. I know Hera does this at least once as well to some hero love-child of Zeus.

There's no prophecy there. The oracle isn't prophesizing the sacrifice, she's tricking the parents into doing what Aphrodite wants to happen. So yeah, I guess she altered the future in the same way I can if I trick someone into doing something.

That's the thing with prophecy. The prophets don't control what they say. I would think The Fates would be behind the prophecies themselves.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

There's no prophecy there. The oracle isn't prophesizing the sacrifice, she's tricking the parents into doing what Aphrodite wants to happen. So yeah, I guess she altered the future in the same way I can if I trick someone into doing something.

There is a prophecy. She's specifically prophesied to be "wed" to a monster that even the gods fear. (Which is what Eros is; he can, after all, yank around Zeus like a chew toy.)

That's the thing with prophecy. The prophets don't control what they say. I would think The Fates would be behind the prophecies themselves.

So...the Fates are writing prophecy...which means they control it...

 

[Micah Sweet]

There is a prophecy. She's specifically prophesied to be "wed" to a monster that even the gods fear. (Which is what Eros is; he can, after all, yank around Zeus like a chew toy.)


So...the Fates are writing prophecy...which means they control it...

But if the Fates don't change things for mortals, they're not altering fate. In any case, the Fates have in my estimation always been depicted as a group apart from the Olympians.

 

[Maxperson]

There is a prophecy. She's specifically prophesied to be "wed" to a monster that even the gods fear. (Which is what Eros is; he can, after all, yank around Zeus like a chew toy.)

If she's just repeating what a goddess told her to say, and then the god arranges things, that's not a prophecy any more than if I told you something was going to happen and then I went out and arranged it. The goddess didn't use her powers to alter fate or look into the future and repeat what she saw.

So...the Fates are writing prophecy...which means they control it...

The Fates would be issuing it, yes. They would not be prophets themselves. They are the ones that control.............fate. They can actually use powers to alter fate, or more than likely they just look into the future to see what is going to happen and then send the vision or whatever to the oracle.

 

[Maxperson]

But if the Fates don't change things for mortals, they're not altering fate. In any case, the Fates have in my estimation always been depicted as a group apart from the Olympians.

Yep. Like the Norse gods and the Norns.

 

[nevin]

Right idea, wrong numbers.

1-2 are prayer books etc. 3-5 are divine minions, assistants, etc. 6-7 come from the deity direct.

Cleric spells in 1e only go to 7.

EDIT: Ninja'ed by @Maxperson

as I said LIke 1e. but now they do go to 9.......

 

[nevin]

Yep. Like the Norse gods and the Norns.

in the older greek myths and in the norse myths they don't change them for gods either. In fact in both the older versions Zues and Odin were scared of them. Also the primal powers of the Universe like Night, Oceanus and others and in norse the king of the ocean and other gods where more powerful than even zues or Odin. Nicts daughters and sons would go home to mom when Zues was mad at them. There were many things in the Universe that even the gods couldn't change.

 

[nevin]

In fact, I'm pretty sure there are multiple times when one or more deities commandeer an oracle in order to shape the world to have the result they want. IIRC, Venus/Aphrodite specifically directs the Oracle at Delphi to tell Psyche's (unnamed) royal parents to sacrifice her, meaning she quite literally takes control of prophecy to make something happen. I know Hera does this at least once as well to some hero love-child of Zeus.

Oracles didn't repeat what the gods told them to repeat. The gods controlled the oracles because access to them was power and money. The oracles simply were able to pick up on bits and pieces of fate and rulers and other powerful people paid to get that information.

 

[Maxperson]

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[Umbran]

Do those folks alter fate though? The Fates just know how it's going to go.

There are stories and traditions in which the Greek Fates could be placated - for that to have meaning, they must have some influence on how things turn out. For example, we can look at the story of Meleager - the Fates might decree at your birth that your life will end when a particular log in the fireplace is consumed by fire. But, that still allows a lot of leeway on exactly when and how that log finally gets burned.

Tyche and Eris don't necessarily know how its going to go, they just want it to go a certain way.

In the Greek (and other similar traditions, like the Norse) the Fates didn't determine everything about your life, and the decrees of the Fates are like prophecy - with a lot of wiggle room for interpretation as above.

And prophecy is very unreliable and open to interpretation.

In Greek mythology, prophecy is entirely reliable. I cannot think of a single instance when a decreed prophecy turned out to not come true. The question is instead whether you understand the prophecy.