D&D 5E ALL ABOARD!!! Should rules for climbing big opponents be a part of the Core rules of D&D Next?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't have the option to vote: "Seriously, do we need special rules for that?"

Chalk me up in the "Rulings not rules" category. If the game actually has such rules in it...then it will have become waaayyyy to fiddly and rule-bound for me to ever run it and probably even want to play it.

I think a rules framework for it would be nice, because especially at later levels, monsters also tend to get pretty large. Dragons, Giants and what not.

I wouldn't mind if it was just a "reskinned" (and simple) Grapple rule system.

 

[cmbarona]

I wouldn't mind if it was just a "reskinned" (and simple) Grapple rule system.

Yeah, I guess this is why I think it's not a big deal to include. It seems mostly like a Grapple with slightly tweaked rules. If you can keep Grapple simple (or at least, simpler than 3.5), it seems you should be able to keep Cling/Climb simple.

 

[Dausuul]

Yeah, I guess this is why I think it's not a big deal to include. It seems mostly like a Grapple with slightly tweaked rules. If you can keep Grapple simple (or at least, simpler than 3.5), it seems you should be able to keep Cling/Climb simple.

Exactly. There shouldn't be a separate rule for climbing big monsters; the same rules should handle grappling and monster-climbing. If you grapple something your own size, it can't move (or at least has considerable trouble moving). If you grapple something bigger than you, you don't hinder its movement, but when it moves you can go along for the ride.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Exactly. There shouldn't be a separate rule for climbing big monsters; the same rules should handle grappling and monster-climbing. If you grapple something your own size, it can't move (or at least has considerable trouble moving). If you grapple something bigger than you, you don't hinder its movement, but when it moves you can go along for the ride.

That makes sense to me.

 

[Warbringer]

I have this years for years in our modified grapple rules, which are super streamlined.

(Short form)

1. Make a check (str/dex vs str/dex) to enter an opponents zone of control (reach + sqs occupied). On a success you are in their zone and can move through occupied sqs, as if unoccupied. If the creature is more than 1 size bigger, you can also "climb" them which is simply a move treated as difficult terrain. If you fail to take control, the opponent has an immediate action against you.

2. You can make an attack but only with a natural weapon or a weapon smaller than the opponents size (mimic close quarter fighting). If your opponent is 1 size bigger than you, you may use missile weapons without AO

3. Each round make a contested role as above to maintain "control". A creature in control has combat advantage.

4. You may grapple an opponent when you are in control if they are of the same or lesser size (feats let you grapple larger creatures). In our system, grappling simply gives you free effects you add to your attack/damage rolls

It's quick, and can be nasty.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Exactly. There shouldn't be a separate rule for climbing big monsters; the same rules should handle grappling and monster-climbing. If you grapple something your own size, it can't move (or at least has considerable trouble moving). If you grapple something bigger than you, you don't hinder its movement, but when it moves you can go along for the ride.

Should you still contest your Strength vs the Strength or Dexterity of the larger creature?

That's my major problem with the grapple rules as stands. Since larger creatures are generally stronger, it makes it very difficult to climb them. Forget Legolas running up the nose of the oliphant, or a Hobbit jumping on the back of a cave troll.

 

[KiloGex]

I'm a no, but not for that reason: Next is supposed to be a more rules light system than 3E or 4E. DMs need to be able to make stuff up on the fly using a basic list of rules, and starting to add things like this just takes away from the creativity of the players and DM. Would you need rules for climbing each size increment from large to colossal? And what if you're playing a small or tiny creature, will you need different modifiers and scales?

Just make stuff up, already.

 

[Sunseeker]

Specific rules for climbing monsters are unnecessary. You can create them by using existing modifiers for regular climbing. Here is some make-believe math.
Climb DC: X
Moving Target: DC +2
Surface difficulty(smooth, slimy, wet, ie: difficult terrain climbing surface): DC +2
Aggressive(ie: fighting against your attempt to climb it, you may need to have the monster make a spot chec, which may increase the DC further if it notices you and acts against you, or simply rule that if you are in combat with it, this applies): +2

So lets say you want to climb atop a dragon you are battling, I'd say dragons are a difficult climb regardless, so lets say that's a DC 18. Dragon scales don't make for the best handholds, so there's a +2. The dragon is likely moving as it is fighting you, so there's another +2, it's also fighting you, so +2.

So climbing a dragon while you are in combat with it, would give you a DC 24. If it succeeds in it's spot check(it gets one every time you move while on it), the DC goes up by another +2.

I don't really think there are any special rules needed for this. I think the outline I wrote above presents a sound way to approach adjusting the DC for attempting to climb a monster.