All subraces all the time

[Desdichado]

I'm very indecisive on this question, actually. In general, I feel that the core races are bland, but they don't have to be. Eberron showed how to take core elves, give them four interesting spins (Khorvaire standard elves, the Dragonmarked House elves, Valenar "hero" elves and Aerenal "necromancer" elves). FR on the other hand came up with subraces. Both are solutions to the problem that yes, core races can be kinda bland. Anymore, except for serious extenuating circumstances (like tradition, maybe; I think drow as merely a cultural spin on a mechanically core elf race is probably not going to fly) I'm all for avoiding mechanical sub-races, but I do like the cultural spin that the subraces give. Perhaps a very minor mechanical fix, sorta along the lines of regional feats or something like that, could be used to differentiate.

EDIT: Psion, could you provide some more info on your "background packages" as that also seems like something that would accomplish the same purpose.

Personally, I'd be all for a campaign that didn't feature any of the core races (except maybe human) but instead had a collection of other races. I'd love to have a bunch of LA +1 planetouched races, for instance, and use them as my racial selections. But again, that's because I find the core races bland. I'm glad my current DM doesn't have any problem inserting changelings and shifters into his Greyhawk Age of Wyrms campaign (the other two Eberron races are too firmly tied to the setting, IMO, but shifter and changeling could fit just about any D&D campaign easily enough) for the same reason.

 

[Psion]

EDIT: Psion, could you provide some more info on your "background packages" as that also seems like something that would accomplish the same purpose.

Basically, it's a rip-off of Second World's backgrounds, which in turn are a slightly more balanced version of D20 modern's starting occuptations.

The idea is this: each background has a list of skills and a list of feats. I add a list of weapon proficiencies.

A character with the background gets 3 picks; the feats count as two picks. The skills either give you the skill as a class skill, or give you a +1 if you already have the skill as a class skill. This way, by charging a feat, you give the character a little kickback for choosing background-appropraite skills or feats, as well as a way to customize their class skill lists a bit. (For core elves, I let them treat their starting proficiencies as picks, and let them trade them in.)

I prefer this to the idea of making regional "super feats" as in 3.5 FR. The mechanical advantage is more slight, and it makes the occurance of those feats and skills more likely, but doesn't make it the singular choice for characters who want to be the best at that.

 

[Turjan]

The idea is this: each background has a list of skills and a list of feats. I add a list of weapon proficiencies.

A character with the background gets 3 picks; the feats count as two picks. The skills either give you the skill as a class skill, or give you a +1 if you already have the skill as a class skill.

Sounds like a good solution to me. If skills are tied to background, this will be a good representation of regional characteristics.

Perhaps, we were not talking about the same thing. My dislike for too many subraces is tied to the feeling that already some of the core races have difficulties in finding their specific niche in the world. Subraces in D&D then often means spreading the niches of one race by occupying a similar niche of a different race. You often have aquatic, subterranean of forest subraces of each and every core race, and this results basically in the same race mix everywhere you go. Thus, diversifying can paradoxically make things more bland *shrug*. But those packages seem like a good way around that.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Aren't there enough aquatic races/monsters without throwing a bunch of elves in there, too?

Hey, and where are the Sea Dwaves and Sea Gnomes?

 

[Psion]

Aren't there enough aquatic races/monsters without throwing a bunch of elves in there, too?

FYI, if you are referring to my "sea" elves, they are not "aquatic" elves. They are "seafaring" elves.

Hey, and where are the Sea Dwaves and Sea Gnomes?

In my game: there are none, per se.

In the RAW/Supplements: Unearthed Arcana, pg. 7.

 

[Nightcloak]

Basically, it's a rip-off of Second World's backgrounds, which in turn are a slightly more balanced version of D20 modern's starting occuptations.

The idea is this: each background has a list of skills and a list of feats. I add a list of weapon proficiencies.

A character with the background gets 3 picks; the feats count as two picks. The skills either give you the skill as a class skill, or give you a +1 if you already have the skill as a class skill. This way, by charging a feat, you give the character a little kickback for choosing background-appropraite skills or feats, as well as a way to customize their class skill lists a bit. (For core elves, I let them treat their starting proficiencies as picks, and let them trade them in.)

I prefer this to the idea of making regional "super feats" as in 3.5 FR. The mechanical advantage is more slight, and it makes the occurance of those feats and skills more likely, but doesn't make it the singular choice for characters who want to be the best at that.

I really like the sounds of this. I have been looking for something with the right mix of balance while adding cultural flavor.

Let me see if I got this straight, the character can spend his 1st level feat to choose 3 mechanical benifits from a list including cashing two choices in for a feat?

 

[Nightcloak]

So what do you think? Are the core demihuman races too bland to live? Has anyone out there wen't excusivley with subraces or other variants?

Never thought of it, but it sounds like an interesting concept. Maybe for a future homebrew I'll pitch the core classes and pick a subrace from each to act as the core race instead. That would be interesting indeed.

 

[Psion]

I really like the sounds of this. I have been looking for something with the right mix of balance while adding cultural flavor.

Let me see if I got this straight, the character can spend his 1st level feat to choose 3 mechanical benifits from a list including cashing two choices in for a feat?

Sounds like you got it.

 

[Nightcloak]

Sounds like you got it.

Excellent. I'm going to play around with that. Thanks for posting it

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

FYI, if you are referring to my "sea" elves, they are not "aquatic" elves. They are "seafaring" elves.

I'm not. Your seafaring elves don't sound like what I think of when I hear "subrace", anyway.