Allocating skill points for monsters

[Fester]

Hi folks,

I don't get the skill point allocation for creatures in the MM.

For instance, if I want to advance a creature (a dire rat, for example), it says (in the table Creature Improvement by Type) that the Animal type gets 2+Int mod per HD skill points.

Now, given that the dire rat is normally 1 HD and has Int 1, then how come it appears to have 8 skill points? A 6 HD dire rat would only get 6!

I must be missing something. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[Man-thing]

Breakdown

One thing is that creatures gain 4 x as many skill points for 1st HD just like characters.
By my calculation the Dire rat should have (2-5)[minimum 1] x (3 + HD skill points)

The (3 + HD) is a simple modification to calculate total skill points easier as it will include the 4 times as many at 1st level rule.

Climb +11 (+8 racial, +3 Dex) --> no skill points used
Hide +8 (+4 size +3 Dex +1 rank) --> 1 rank
Listen +4 (+1 wis +2 Alertness +1 rank) --> 1 rank
Move Silently +4 (+3 Dex +1 rank) --> 1 rank
Spot +4 (+1 wis, +2 alertness +1 rank) --> 1 rank
Swim +11 (+8 racial +3 Dex) --> no skill points used

Dire rat has (1) x (3+1) skill points = 4 (and 4 are used)

-----------------------------------------------------------
Skill points are okay for the Dire Rat.
It doesn't meet prerequistes for Weapon Finesse though.

 

[rurbonas]

Hrm... Table 5-4: Skill Points By Monster Type in the Monster Manual (MM) says that animals have (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) * (HD + 3) skill points, so the dire rat, with 1 HD and 1 Int should have 4 skill points (and a 6 HD dire rat should have 9 skill points - don't forget that everything gets 4 times the normal number of skill points for their first HD).

Looking at the skill entries on the dire rat stat block, we see its skill modifiers, and the composition of those modifiers are:
Climb +11 (+8 racial, +3 Dex)
Hide +8 (+4 Size, +3 Dex, +1 rank)
Listen +4 (+2 Alertness, +1 Wis, +1 rank)
Move Silently +4 (+3 Dex, +1 rank)
Spot +4 (+2 Alertness, +1 rank)
Swim +11 (+8 racial, +3 Dex)
Which adds up to 4 skill points.

There are a few things that aren't noted right on the stat block that you have to be careful about:
- Dire Rats use their Dex modifier for Climb and Swim checks (right at the end of the dire rat entry, MM64)
- Alertness adds +2 to Listen and Spot checks (PHB89)
- There's a size modifier to Hide checks (PHB76)

Hope that helps!

Edit: Drat! Beaten to the punch!

 

[Fester]

Hi!

Thanks for your help

That really helps clarify things for me and it makes so much more sense now!

Cheers.

 

[Li Shenron]

What they say is right If you want to advance a creature, IIRC all those skills listed in the description are class skills for the creature, even if it doesn't have ranks in them in the first place.

 

[Li Shenron]

It doesn't meet prerequistes for Weapon Finesse though.

In this regard, I think I've read somewhere that a creature doesn't need to meet prerequisites for its bonus feats (something like racial feats). That's why Weapon Finesse is given as bonus feat instead as regular feat to several animals.


edit: "A monster gains feats just as a character does. Sometimes a creature has one or more bonus feats, marked with a superscript B (B). Creatures often do not have the prerequisites for a bonus feat. If this is so, the creature can still use the feat. If you wish to customize the creature with new feats, you can reassign its other feats, but not its bonus feats. A creature cannot have a feat that is not a bonus feat unless it has the feat’s prerequisites."