Allowing PCs to be heroic

[Bront]

Allow for extra "Heroic" maneuvers. I had a Barb/Druid/Cleric who was a rather imposing figure wielding his greatsword. I would occasionaly ask to make an Intimidate check in combat, mostly for heroic effect. I got quite a few enemies to flee after cleaving 2-3 companions and then shouting and pointing a sword at them.

The legendary situation was when he was caught up in a noose droped from a ledge right above the cave entrance. The goblins douced him with greek fire, and he raged to get out of the noose (Seemed like the right thing to do). Once he freed himself, with several skill rolls, he jumped up onto the ledge from below, drew his sword, and managed to crit the poor critter standing near the ledge as he landed, and then looked up for his next victem, while still on fire (GM allowed for an intimidate check, and gave me buku circumstance bonuses). That scared the other 24 creatures enough that they turned tail and fled. Fun, heroic, and kind of cool.

Give your PCs moments to shine, even if you have to occasionaly bend the rules (Technicaly, in above example, I shouldn't have been able to make the jump (A bit too high), or draw the sword (questionable, but didn't have quickdraw), or make the attack (given everything else), or make an intimidate check (Though that was just appropriate given the situation)). Now, on the other end, your PCs have to be encouraged to do these things, and hopefully roleplay them (Wouldn't have worked for the halfling rogue wizard) as well. Not everything should boil down to a roll either (Though it's nice to occasionaly reward someone who uses a skill in a cool way and rolls well).

Overall, a good heroic feeling to a game often is a bit looser with the rules. Reward players for creative and appropriate skill use (not munchkin use, just creative), as well as taking heroic chances.

Also, make sure you plan for PC's to succeed and showcase a talent occasionaly, rather than play on a weekness.

 

[IronWolf]

I think letting the PC's shine is important. It makes for good tales many sesssions later. Sure there should be difficult encounters (combat or roleplaying) along the way, but sometimes simply giving an opportunity for them to shine is worth it.

 

[Steverooo]

How do you allow your PCs to be heroic?

1) Don't sweat the small stuff... If your Ranger wants to set some traps and snares to catch some small game, don't worry about it. That's a Barbarian/Druid/Ranger thing. Just let him take 10 on the Wilderness Lore/Survival check, and tell him how successful he was. In almost all cases, it isn't important to the story, so ignore any "Set Traps" mechanics, etc.

2) Allow "Take 10" anytime, except during combat. PCs aren't incompetent idiots, they're intelligent, creative heroes. Treat them as such. The general take on the D&D Climb rules are a perfect example of Anti-Heroism: You fail a climb check, and most GMs tell you that you fall (and in 1e, it was always from 1/2 the maximum height). Now I've done some rock climbing, and failed many times, but never fallen... I just couldn't get up! Failure = fall is NOT heroic! An alternative is to allow a 5' move left/right, and try again.

3) Use those Commoners! If the PCs go up against something too tough, and get whooped, give them something easier. The Commoners back in town are a perfect example... Sneaking past a Dragon is well-nigh impossible. Sneaking past a whole town full of Commoners much less so. PCs are supposed to be special, and letting their abilities shine among the Commoners also helps explain why the Commoners keep looking to the PCs to save their towns!...

So the next time that the PCs get whooped by an Owl-Bear, have the wide-eyed Commoners ask: "You get whooped by an Owl-Bear!?! And you lived to tell about it!?!" Most Commoners, after all, wouldn't have!

Occasionally, while the PCs fight to save the town from the Red Dragon Invasion, it's a good idea to have some Commoners try, too,... and show how miserably they failed! It makes the PCs surviving by the skin of their teeth a lot easier to bear!

Is it a matter of how the campaign is set up, how the villain is designed, or is it up to the PCs themselves to create heroism?

All of those things matter. Midnight is harder to feel heroic in, as you're basically foredoomed to failure. Unbeatable villians, as in Ravenloft's domain-lords, also work against it. In the end, however, it is up to the players to be heroic (or not).

And just what IS heroism, anyhow?

Bravery, courage, achievement (which certainly implies success). Also, a whole heapa luck, and some knowledge and skill in the game, too. The things in the paragraph, above, all work against the first three...

 

[The Shaman]

My personal feeling is that too much "Your brother is the BBEG's boy-Friday" or "Your mother's ghost is behind the grisly murders in Port Ghastly" becomes trite and cloying very quickly. Games start to resemble Greek tragedies instead of swords and sorcery adventure - this tends to upset my suspension of disbelief (too many coincidences needed to sustain the plot) and gets exceedingly tiresome every time the villain is revealed to be some long-lost (or not-so-long-lost) relation of the PCs.

IMX it also plays into the idea that the GM's job is to "tell a story," which is a style of adventure and campaign design that I try to avoid as much as possible. That said, if a player gives me a good strong character hook on which to hang a couple of encounters, sure, I'll use those no problem. But I won't design adventures or campaigns around the players' character backgrounds.

 

[Rel]

I think that heroic actions are great and all, but what really makes people feel heroic is the sense that when all is said and done, they made a difference.

A month or so ago, I tore off the roof of my (sizeable) shed and put on a new one. This took a lot of effort on my part and put my carpentry skills to the test. When I was finished, my wife hugged me, handed me a beer, cooked me a nice dinner and rubbed my sore back that night. "I can't believe how great the shed looks! You did an awesome job! I had no idea you were so good at stuff like that!" are some things that she said.

I felt like a hero.

If she'd said, "Well it's about time you got that thing fixed. It's been damaged for over a year now." then I'd have felt like my efforts were wasted.

Sometime I think that having PC's feel like heroes is simply a matter of having the NPC's treat them that way.

The Halfling Rogue/Cleric in my Eberron campaign bailed a baker out of a financial jam with the mob. It wasn't a lot of money to the PC but the baker was looking at having his business foreclosed on. Since then the baker has had his little girl drop off a basket of warm pastries on the PC's doorstep every morning. The PC loves this and he is constantly reminded that his small act of kindness made a big difference to someone.

 

[S'mon]

Well, psychological stuff. I tend to like character interaction--intrigue, romance, backstory coming back to haunt the PC--in addition to hack n' slash.

Hi Rafael - me too. As far as creating a genuinely heroic PC (rather than a PC merely very good at killing things and taking their stuff) I would focus on character motivation, and in particular internal conflicts. The most heroic characters I've played have tended to be fighters against impossible odds, driven by a need for something abstract like revenge, justice, self-validation. Eg, for a Cyberpunkish game:

"His name is John Derrick. They murdered his wife and framed him for the crime. He's been in jail ten years. Now he's escaped, and he's going to make them pay..."

Or, for Midnight:

"Her name is Zana Than, daughter of Lord Than. She is Ironborn. She stands against the Shadow. Her father was a Freerider, the greatest warrior ever... or so she thinks. The Shadow took him, but she has his sword Kursu, the Lightning Blade, and she will prove herself worthy..."

 

[S'mon]

I agree with your definition of heroism, as well as several others who've defined it similarly. To tell the truth, the more I think about this, the more unsure I am what my mentor was referring to. I need to pin him down on that.

Good idea - if he's thinking Superman & you're thinking Spiderman you're talking at cross purposes.

 

[diaglo]

Okay, as a point of clarification, I'm told that this is my version of the situation: do I have a red dragon attack or do I have the PCs long lost sister show up intent on summoning a red dragon?

Also, that I focus on things that D&D doesn't really have skills for.

well there is obviously more to the story too you can develop.

the village being the home of one or all of the PCs.

the villagers.. their family, friends, neighbors, lovers...

the dragon is a preemptive strike by another invading force..

you can build.

there is nothing stopping you from using your imagination. the example was barebones..(1edADnD style) how you and the others react or play the game is up to your group.

 

[Errant]

How do you allow your PCs to be heroic? Is it a matter of how the campaign is set up, how the villain is designed, or is it up to the PCs themselves to create heroism? And just what IS heroism, anyhow?

Have you asked what your players consider to be heroic?

My opinion? Heroism is making or risking a personal sacrifice for the benefit of others with little chance of survival and/or reward.

Is it how the campaign/villain is set up? Partly. Is it how the PCs choose to act? Just as much.

I think the most heroic thing any of my players ever did was when a ranger willingly gave his prized flame tongue longsword to some villagers that had been plagued by trolls and undead, knowing they could give him nothing for it. I knew the player loved that sword but the villagers explained they could pretend he was still around protecting the village even after he had to leave, and he immediately handed it over without a word! And this was AFTER he had already lept off the town wall, into a group of trolls and undead pounding on the gates with a ram during a night time attack - alone, without most of his armor after rushing out of bed to join the defense. He barely survived.

When the alarm went up the ranger COULD have taken the time to put all his armor on, but he grabbed his sword, maybe a shield and ran straight to the walls because he could hear the villagers on the wall already locked in combat. He COULD have stayed on the walls and kept shooting arrows at the trolls like the rest of the defenders. He COULD have told the villagers he needed the sword for his ongoing quest.

I set up the scenario - the PCs were on their way to a remote monsters lair several days away when they came across an isolated village of foresters surrounded by undead. Clearing the zombies circling the town proved easy (they had been ordered to attack anyone leaving the village, being mindless they didn't react well to a new, outside threat). Defending the village when it was attacked that night by orcs, trolls and more undead was harder.

The player chose his actions. Choosing to risk himself again and again because innocents were threatened by forces they couldn't alone survive. On top of that he chose to sacrifice his most prized possession with no sign of any thought for reward.

Although all of the PCs helped defend the village the ranger risked himself the most, by far. I recognised that when I described the aftermath - many villagers wounded and a handful slain but most survived, all very grateful, thanks to the PCs' aid. I even exploited the ranger's heroism when the villagers asked for his sword so they could pretend he was still around leading the defence after he'd gone. Finally I rewarded the ranger's heroism when a "minor cleric" travelling with the group revealed himself to be a movanic deva, an emissary sent by his god to judge his worthiness (after a previous adventure nearly doomed the world, long story). The deva replaced the ranger's sword with his own (stronger sword - hey, I was impressed) and left to report the ranger's worthiness.

In my experience players often take a mission and choose the easiest route with the greatest chance of reward. Fine. Most of the time. Sometimes though you have to set it up so that the PCs have a reason to rush or take risks, the less the chance of reward, the more heroic their actions.

Sure, metagaming, the players will expect to be rewarded, but they don't have to be rewarded with treasure or magic. NPC recognition is great (I love Rel's baker example, gotta think of a way to use that!).

Hope something I said helps.

[edited grammar ]

 

[Steverooo]

My opinion? Heroism is making or risking a personal sacrifice for the benefit of others with little chance of survival and/or reward.

That kind of attitude just leads to hordes of dead PCs, and frustrated, burned-out players, IMHO. YMMV. It's certainly not the way I'd want to play!