Altering an encounter on the fly: What would you have done?

[BSF]

But, you didn't handle it questionably!

The game has more depth. I understand your concern about them scrapping the quest. But, it should be fun to watch the conversation as the party discusses things. It opens up new possibilities. With the thought that they may be facing a 17th level Druid, they may try to be more stealthy. They may decide to seek the Druids out and try to resolve the conflict through diplomacy. Perhaps they Druids don't lack the will, perhaps they lack conviction. Maybe they aren't as sure of their opposition to the quest as they would like to be. Or, what does it mean if the party goes on with the quest and the Druids don't strike them down? Maybe they aren't as powerful as they seemed? Maybe they used a scroll to summon the Shamblers? Sure, you know what the NPC's are thinking, but the players don't. There are many ways that this can go, and it will probably be fun. This is the type of unexpected event that crops up in a game that makes me enjoy it more. It sounds like it will be fun. Of course, from what I have seen, your games are fun.

 

[Speaks With Stone]

Since Rel pointed me to his question, I figured I'd reply and give the perspective of one of the aforementioned "foolish" players. I don't think that Rel's handling was wrong - but I will suggest that on night one with lots of new characters that a chance to work out some kinks would have been nice. We were still operating in that "honeymoon" stage where we have new characters, new abilities and new players. I don't think night one of a campaign is a great time to start handing out lessons.

Surely, no guard posted is a bad call. At the same time, this was not land we "heard" was cleared of bad things - it was land we had previously cleared of the bad things. We were following a burgeoning trade path that we had opened and one of our party members had just walked it by himself the week before. The druid sleeps in the more hostile woods north of this place all the time - it's home.

I won't argue that "anything can happen in the D&D world." I just have a problem with acting military in peaceful conditions. I find it detracts from the roleplaying to focus so heavily on the tactics. When in a hostile situation, guards and tactics are clearly a must. But at what point can a character just be himself - apparently only in exposition.

We were going to "learn the lesson" about guarding one way or the other - whether they attacked us the way they did or attacked us at breakfast. Just "at breakfast" would have been more fun for the group and given us a chance to learn the characters.

Clearly, this encounter doesn't say much for my tactics as I'm the one with the most background in the game and in this campaign, but I frequently act in ways that are more picturesque. That is how I enjoy playing - I'm watching the movie in my mind - and that's not to say I don't enjoy the tactics, but I also don't like acting paranoid about everything, which is exactly where I seem to be heading. The only way not to get punished is to anticipate and prepare against foes who scry, shapeshift and apparently have 9 levels more experience.

Sorry - some of that goes into my followup concern. I've just been "taught a lesson" about not being smart and prepared, and yet clearly all of our character backgrounds were set up and the story is designed around us going up against druids that can cast shambling mounds- a 9th level spell. I can't hide my actions from them as they can follow us and scry on us at will. There are no resources for anti-scrying magic available. Clearly, we are supposed to go against the will of these 17th level druids. The only smart thing to do is to do what they said to do leave. And yet, the entire story is pointed at going up against them.

Normally I wouldn't sweat this so much. I trust the story to go on and I love playing my part. But if I have to assume that every poor choice will be punished severely and I know that there is no way for me to protect against my adversary, then the only smart option is to abandon the story. As mentioned above - sometimes the party is supposed to be smart enough to run away. That is the lesson I seem to be getting from all of this, that we should run away.

And yet Rel assures me strongly that that is not the lesson I am to get from this. So the reality becomes - the foolish things the GM doesn't expect you to do will be punished and the foolish things the GM does expect you to do will be rewarded.

I seem to be venting a bit and I apologize. I don't mind being punished for foolish actions, I have committed many and have received my reward. I find myself just frustrated by the situation. Perhaps I have learned a lesson about posting guards, but at the same time I hate having to play my character as a paranoid freak who basically will never be able to rest. Some of this spills over from a recent character who was assasinated in his sleep at the inn. Apparently, there is no place that a character can relax and be himself and that is a bit depressing.

Oh well. I'll stop complaining. As I said before, I don't think anything was wrong with how things were handled- just an unfortunate turn of events (and dice). Guards have been assigned. We can all go to sleep now.

 

[Henry]

Hi, Speaks!

It sounded to me like it was "first game mistake," as well. Though until Rel added it later, I didn't realize these were new characters - I thought it was the resumption of a campaign, and I took that as the char's were not "brand new."

But I hope the campaign goes well - and I think your party's first order of business is to get a bead on some non-detection magic and anti-magics.

And don't think of them as 17th level druids - think of them as stupid sons of who should've killed you when they had the chance.

Good luck!

 

[Speaks With Stone]

Now Henry I believe has the right attitude.

This character in particular has buried nearly all of his previous companions (reincarnated one to have him alienated by everyone he knew),and so he has a bit more of a dour perspective on the outcome of the quest. Perhaps all the more reason I shouldn't have been caught napping.

It's funny when you look back on the experiences of most characters - events that could have driven 10 men insane barely phase many of them. Truly a lack of love and community and an overabundance of death/evil/jealousy/intrigue etc would make for some truly messed up individuals.

In that light, I'm working on ways to get around the druid problem. Unfortunately, all I can do is come up with ways to annoy them, which may have to be what I settle for.

I'm trying not to think of them as less than 17th level druids (as Rel seems to be hinting) because the only things my character knows is that they are shape changers, know the druidic alphabet, cast goodberries, and have the skill scry (as they detected me scrying on them - using their message as a link). I have no reason to conclude that the shambling mound thing was a one-time thing, even though its certainly possible (again as Rel hints). I just don't see what other reasonable conclusion I could make at this time - but that won't stop me from scrying on them, too. They can watch me, but I can watch them, too. (Back to that annoying the high level druids thing).

Oh well, I'll come up with something. Something that hopefully does not involve undue paranoia. Just due paranoia.

 

[coyote6]

I'm trying not to think of them as less than 17th level druids [...] I just don't see what other reasonable conclusion I could make at this time

Well, there are ways to get shambling mounds without being a 17th level druid. Scrolls or staves or other magic items that let you cast a shambler-like effect; if you're using 3e summon monster lists, summon nature's ally VI will get you a shambling mound -- they could try multiple castings; they could just have plain old shambling mound allies/hench-critters; or some combination thereof. Or, hey, maybe they were planar ally fiendish shambling mounds.

So don't go too far towards assuming they're extremely powerful druids. (OTOH, don't go rushing off to attack them until you have a good idea just how powerful they are!)

Even if it is a 17th level druid, you aren't doomed; it sounds like y'all are 8th level, so you just need to stay out of their way for 6 or 7 levels.

 

[Luddite]

For me, I apply the following question as to if I should modify the planned encounter "on the fly."

--What is the intention of the Encounter?

If the intent was to kill the party in a challenging battle, then at least make sure the party struggles before killing them.

If the intent was to harm and warn the players, then do over do it.

Early in my testing of 3rd Ed, I wanted to throw a Troll at the party. So it was just an Encounter on the road. The Troll's motivation was food. So the party comes the Troll attacks, I realized that I seriously overestimated the strenght of the party. They were going to die in an Encounter that was ment to just shake them up with maybe one or two near deaths. So after taking out the most pesky fighter, the Troll grabbed one of the horses and trotted off. It wanted food in the first place, and the "two-legs." were being too fussy.

Now there is the aspect of the party being "Stupid." But then that should be a serious smaking, but not death. Well not for first offence of Stupidity

-The Luddite

 

[Speaks With Stone]

Well, there are ways to get shambling mounds without being a 17th level druid. Scrolls or staves or other magic items that let you cast a shambler-like effect; if you're using 3e summon monster lists, summon nature's ally VI will get you a shambling mound -- they could try multiple castings; they could just have plain old shambling mound allies/hench-critters; or some combination thereof. Or, hey, maybe they were planar ally fiendish shambling mounds.

So don't go too far towards assuming they're extremely powerful druids. (OTOH, don't go rushing off to attack them until you have a good idea just how powerful they are!)

Even if it is a 17th level druid, you aren't doomed; it sounds like y'all are 8th level, so you just need to stay out of their way for 6 or 7 levels.

Sure, other ways are possible. And perhaps it was just a Level 6 spell with multiple castings - honestly I didn't realize they were on the summon list. I knew there was the higher level spell but I didn't see them on the lower. That certainly makes things less tight. We've never played characters over 7th or 8th level so I have rather poor familiarity with higher levels spells.

Double dumb @$$ on me.

 

[S'mon]

I think you handled it well. Better than I would have. I would have left a dead barbarian and druid on the ground for their friends to find in the morning. Not setting a watch is bad enough, but when there's only TWO of you? Not smart.

I would probably have had the enemy take the corpses away to prevent raising.

IMO you were pretty lenient, not killing those two PCs. OTOH if the enemy druids were N or NG I can see why they might want to just send a non-lethal warning to the PCs. If the PCs don't get the message I think next time it'd be different.

Anyway, I think you handled it well, albeit more leniently than I would have been inclined to - sounds as if the players were idiots, frankly.

 

[S'mon]

Most of them had no desire to spend the night in the rain so the Wizard cast Rope Trick and he, the Rogue/RE and the Fighter/Cleric got inside out of the weather (and also out of any possibility of immediate contact with the other two characters). The Druid and the Barbarian decided to sleep out in the rain more or less just to show the rest of the party that they weren't wimps (there was also the matter that the Druid didn't want to leave his Dire Lion companion sleeping alone in the rain). Furthermore, when asked, they flatly stated that they were going to post no guard and were counting on "sleeping lightly" in case something happened in the night.

This is what I mean about them being idiots. They split the party for no good reason, and took a conscious decision not to post a guard. Unless the lion's torso is bigger than 3'x5' they could easily have set the Rope Trick low enough off the ground that the lion could get into it if desired - or they could just have turned it loose for the night with instructions to come back in the morning. Then the whole party should have used the Rope Trick.

 

[tonym]

...I frequently act in ways that are more picturesque. That is how I enjoy playing - I'm watching the movie in my mind...

I hear ya. A game needs a measure of mellow, picturesque roleplaying. Those moments are fun to roleplay, too. If the party 'always' has to be on Red Alert, however, then why not...

CHECK THE RATIONS FOR POISON!! EVERY MORNING!!

'DETECT EVIL' on the WHOLE PARTY!! THRICE DAILY!!

ALWAYS HAVE THE PARTY SLEEP IN THE SAME ROOM, NEVER IN SEPARATE ROOMS, EVEN IF THE EXTRA ROOM IS ADJACENT!!

...etc.

Not that those aren't reasable things to do, mind you.


Tony M