Alternate D20 Magic Systems - Your Experiences

We switched out the wizard with AU's runethane. Basically turned it into a type of sorcerer.

We homebrewed the divine system, requiring a will save to cast spells. The didn't have to memorize spells and, as a balance, they could attempt to cast spells beyond their ability if they want to risk damage.

They can spontaneously cast their healing/inflict and their domian spells (their gift from their god), but beyond that your god may not hear you.
 

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To the OP: You might want to be a bit more specific about what *kind* of system you'd like. D20 abounds with variant spellcasting systems.

Some examples I've played:

1) Arcana Unearthed/Evolved. This is the system I hope gets used for 4e; it is both more consistent and more flexible than 3e's core spellcasting systems, and IMHO goes the right direction: Pulling out the very powerful "problem spells" (time stop, polymorph, etc.) and replacing the power they give with general casting flexibility on the part of the magic-using classes.

In brief, the AU/AE system divides spells into three categories (simple, complex, exotic) and multiple descriptors (fire, acid, [race], negative energy, etc.). Casters gain access to spells by both category and descriptor; they do not need to maintain spellbooks or choose spells known. A caster may have access to all simple and complex spells (the standard mage), all simple spells and all [simple, complex, AND exotic] spells with the plant and positive energy descriptors (the druidic healer type), and so on. Casters can take feats to broaden their spell access (for example, the Corrupt Mage feat allows you to treat all exotic negative energy spells as complex spells, and all complex negative energy spells as simple spells).

From their list of available spells, casters "ready" a set of spells, typically about 150-200% of the number of spells of each level that they can actually cast. They can then spontaneously cast any spell from their set of readied spells just as if they were a sorcerer casting a known spell. The major differences are as follows:

-Casters can apply metamagic feat-type modifiers without modifying the casting time. Moreover, instead of adding an effective level increase, modifiers require an extra spell slot of the same level as the spell being cast (called "lading" the spell).

-Casters can take feats that add a spell template (an elemental or energy effect, ability damage, extra duration, etc.) to the spell, either for free or by lading it.

The nice thing about this system is that it's very easy to build themed casters through judicious choice of feats that grant access to spells based on descriptor; in fact, even though there is no division between arcane and divine magic in AU/AE, I've found it very easy to build analogues to clerics and druids. Casters have much more flexibility, and because the problem spells are pulled out (and the artillery spells are generally a bit less powerful and ubiquitous) the system encourages a more creative use of magic.

2) The OGL Conan magic system. This is for DMs who want very little magic use in their games in general, and want it to be largely the province of NPCs. The Conan system uses a very select set of spells, most of which involve summoning demons and other spirits and which involve a personal risk to the summoner. Even the weakest of these spells (except for the personal augmentation effects, which IMHO are just sucky, since the class that can use them is super-weak in melee) are pretty powerful, but a scholar (the Conan spellcasting class) cannot cast more than a precious few of these per day. Spell DCs vs. saves are largely eschewed in favor of a Magic Attack Bonus system. The scholar gets decent class features (lotsa skill points, an okay set of hp and defense bonuses) to compensate for being unable to be the local artillery platform. I like this class, and the system in general, but it's not for people who want serious PC magic users.

3) Elements of Magic. IMHO, the Mythic Earth version is the way to go here; it's simple, it's clean, and it represents a genuine paradigm shift from the slots/points system. The traditions are also a good hook for generating themed casters (as you can see, a big asset for me!). Now if only my players would go for it... ;)

4) True Sorcery. Okay, clean breast here; while it *is* flexible (even more than EoM:ME, AFAICT), I don't like this system. Too complicated, too fiddly, too wacky. But maybe someone else (like Henry; hint hint!) will come along and make some statements in its defense?
 

These are all great recommendations. Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond.

What I am looking to do potentially is to replace the spell selections (d20 standard) in a Grim Tales game. I don't like the feel of standard d20 magic in such a game. The spellcasting system isn't what I need - I am really looking for different spells, or a different system of creating my own spells (which I am not afraid to do if need be).
 

I like the spell point system in Midnight. I like how you don't immediately have access to all schools but instead gain them through spending feats. I like that Evocation and Conjuring are split into Lesser and Greater Schools in it. Lesser Conjuring are all the Conjuring spells that don't summon anything.
 

Insight said:
These are all great recommendations. Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond.

What I am looking to do potentially is to replace the spell selections (d20 standard) in a Grim Tales game. I don't like the feel of standard d20 magic in such a game. The spellcasting system isn't what I need - I am really looking for different spells, or a different system of creating my own spells (which I am not afraid to do if need be).

If you want stuff with different flavor, but that basically accomplishes the same effect, then Using the Arcana Unearthed/Evolved spells or the Psionic powers might be the solution. If you want creepy, man-was-not-meant-to-know spells, hunt down a copy of d20 Call of Cthulhu. If you want spells useful in the modern world, look into d20 Modern and Urban Arcana.

There are millions of spells out there. Check the PDF products at the EN world store for collections of spells that fit your fancy. Hunt through the bargain bin of your FLGS. Take an extra glance at the D&D books you own for spells who's feeling you like. And if all else fails, just make up your own.
 

I'll throw my vote in for EOMR as well, and add Lyceum Arcana. Together they are fantastic. I don't have ME, but if it is skill based it sounds awesome, I may have to pick that up.
 

Sovereign Stone: Spellcasters have a Spellcasting bonus (forget what it's called exactly) similar to BAB. To cast a spell, roll D20+Spellcasting Bonus. Spells have a Casting Cost, sort of like a Difficulty Number. You have to roll higher than the casting cost, but you can do it over several rounds. For example, if a spell has a casting cost of 75, you roll your D20+Spellcasting bonus and get a 25. Next round you roll again and get another 25. Third round you get another 25, and you are finally able to cast the spell. It's representative of building up the power/magical energy inside you. When you build up enough energy, the spell goes off. It adds an element of unpredictability-you don't know exactly when your spell will go off. Additionally, each round there is a chance to flub the spell and have something bad happen (the chance increases each round you spend casting a spell), so you don't want to spend too long casting.
 

I really REALLY like the basic system and idea of magic found in Grim Tales. In the games that I have run using it I tend to use a slightly modified system where the base Drain Dice is a d8, and that the drain damage is Non-Lethal damage. Then add in no magic can heal non-lethal damage and boom its' cool.

I also have really liked the ideas found in Black Company (very free-form) and Thieve's World (based somewhat on standard 3.5, but with a number of changes). I have never played either but it looks cool.

Finally I am a big fan of True20's magic (based on the Psychic Handbook)... very cool ideas.

Another game system that I have never played but wanted to try out was found in the Wheel of Time book. Its for 3.0 but it is still pretty cool
 

Karl Green said:
I really REALLY like the basic system and idea of magic found in Grim Tales. In the games that I have run using it I tend to use a slightly modified system where the base Drain Dice is a d8, and that the drain damage is Non-Lethal damage. Then add in no magic can heal non-lethal damage and boom its' cool.

Grim Tales is the basic framework I am probably going to use. What I need now is a set of spells to use, or at the least, a system whereby I could design my own spells.

I also have really liked the ideas found in Black Company (very free-form) and Thieve's World (based somewhat on standard 3.5, but with a number of changes). I have never played either but it looks cool.

Finally I am a big fan of True20's magic (based on the Psychic Handbook)... very cool ideas.

Another game system that I have never played but wanted to try out was found in the Wheel of Time book. Its for 3.0 but it is still pretty cool

All of those are possibilities. I'm not really set on anything in particular, so keep the suggestions coming!
 

MPG's Chaos Magic is a good modular spell system. Since you're playing Grim Tales, you may or may not want to keep the consequences for a failed checks to cast.

It's probably the most free form system I've seen. Pick the spell attributes you want [range, duration, etc] and apply a skill check. The consequences are pretty bad through.
 

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