Alternate Firearm Rules

[arkham618]

Wanted some feedback on some alt-firearm rules for d20 Modern, so I decided to post here (although these may properly belong in House Rules -- I don't know).

The fundamental differences are these:

• Rate of Fire. Four rates of fire: single-shot (SS), semi-automatic (SA), burst-fire (BF), and full-automatic (FA). Single-shot fires one shot per attack (and usually requires reloading or priming before the next attack); semi-auto can fire up to three rounds per attack; burst-fire shoots a single 3-round burst per attack; and full-auto can fire as many 3-round bursts in a turn as ammo will permit. Some weapons may have multiple RoF settings, which can be selected as a free action.
• Recoil. Weapons have a Recoil penalty (typical values for smallarms are -1 to -4) that applies to every 3-round grouping. Single-shot weapons do not suffer from Recoil; double-shots from a SA weapon suffer only half the normal Recoil penalty.
• Autofire. For every 3 points by which an attack succeeds, an additional round hits for damage, up to the total number fired.
• Strafing. Conducted against adjacent squares, at -2 penalty per square (in addition to Recoil penalties). Compare attack roll to Defense of all combatants in targeted squares and apply damage individually to any that are hit. Must fire at least one 3-round burst per square. If all bullets fired strike a target before the strafe is completed, remaining targets are unharmed.
• Feats. Advanced Firearms Proficiency allows a character to experience normal Recoil penalties (without it, all Recoil effects are _doubled_ due to inexperience). Burst Fire is not used. Double Tap eliminates the Recoil penalty on a double-shot from a SA weapon. Point Blank Shot eliminates the Recoil penalty on the first 3-round group fired at a target within 30'. Strafe halves the penalty per square (-1 instead of -2) during a strafing attack. New feats are suggested by these rules, such as a long-range equivalent to Point Blank Shot that eliminates the Recoil penalty on the first 3-round group fired at a target over 30' (or whatever).

I'm sure there are things I missed that need addressing with these alterations. Please tell me what you think.

 

[Mordane76]

I'm not sure I like it -- especially since I need to clarify one thing:

SS allows one shot per attack... is that a "FULL" attack, or an attack "ACTION?"

The first one is a little more believable; SS, if I'm understanding what you're saying, sounds like most muzzle loaders and older rifles, which most people could fire 3-4 well-aimed shots in a minute. Also, at that time, most rifles were in the neighborhood of .50-.60 caliber, so being hit center mass (a well-aimed shot) was usually as good as being dead.



Adjusting the feats, IMO, will make unnecessary complications; I look at what you've got written here, and I get confused quickly.


Recoil, while realistic, is probably an unnecessary burden to the firearms system. It adds another layer of complexity which I think many will find cumbersome and inhibiting to modern firearms.

 

[arkham618]

I'm not sure I like it -- especially since I need to clarify one thing:

SS allows one shot per attack... is that a "FULL" attack, or an attack "ACTION?"

The first one is a little more believable; SS, if I'm understanding what you're saying, sounds like most muzzle loaders and older rifles, which most people could fire 3-4 well-aimed shots in a minute. Also, at that time, most rifles were in the neighborhood of .50-.60 caliber, so being hit center mass (a well-aimed shot) was usually as good as being dead.

I was thinking more along the lines of bolt- or lever- action rifles and some revolvers where you have to manually work the action to feed the next round into the chamber. That and regaining a beed on the target consumes an attack action. (So really good shooters -- those with multiple attacks -- can still get off more than one shot in a round.) A muzzle loader would likely require a full-round action to load and fire, since the process is much more involved.

Adjusting the feats, IMO, will make unnecessary complications; I look at what you've got written here, and I get confused quickly.

The language was a bit terse, I suppose. What parts did you find confusing?

Recoil, while realistic, is probably an unnecessary burden to the firearms system. It adds another layer of complexity which I think many will find cumbersome and inhibiting to modern firearms.

Well, I'm looking for greater realism in these rules. IMHO, d20 Modern completely bungled autofire. Spycraft or Weird Wars do a much better job without getting unduly complicated, and these rules are closely based on those sources.

 

[Ranger REG]

I'm sure there are things I missed that need addressing with these alterations. Please tell me what you think.

If I didn't know you any better, I'd say you got your info from Spycraft.

It is lethal when it comes to autofire, even moreso if the shooter happens to have multiple attacks due to BAB. In Spycraft they limit the number of attacks to 2 (an attack is a half action). For autofire, it is a full action. They make one attack roll and for every number of point above the target's AC, he get hit with additional volley.

To make autofire in d20 Modern is an attack. Period. So if you have BAB +11/+6/+1, you can make three autofire attacks. If concentrated in one designated 10-by-10 area, you force those occupying in that target area to make three Reflex saves.

Wait till you get Suppressive Fire feat from Ultramodern Firearms.

Anyhoo, since I've been spoiled by Spycraft, I tend to allow double tap (semiautomatic firearms only) and burst fire as attack options, not feats.

 

[Ranger REG]

I'm not sure I like it -- especially since I need to clarify one thing:

SS allows one shot per attack... is that a "FULL" attack, or an attack "ACTION?"

Unless the firearms requires reload action, it's one shot per attack you can make. The reason for this is that while the extra bullet are loaded in the firearms, you must manually chamber them, like a bolt-action rifle or a pump-action shotgun.

 

[Dismas]

arkham618 I just wonder if you can add some info on why you felt the need to change these rules.

I do not mind house rules etc, but I do like to see the reasoning behind why they feel the need to change.

 

[arkham618]

arkham618 I just wonder if you can add some info on why you felt the need to change these rules.

I do not mind house rules etc, but I do like to see the reasoning behind why they feel the need to change.

Because I feel that d20 Modern handles firearms poorly, and I cannot excuse such nonsensical rules when there are perfectly good examples (Spycraft, Weird Wars) of firearms done both simply and (more) realistically in d20 products.

As for the reasoning:

The four rates of fire are patterned after real-world smallarms. Semi-automatic weapons can fire only one shot per pull of the trigger, and most people can pull a trigger no more than three times in a second. (I allow a combatant to fire three rounds per attack, as more skilled shooters will be able to fire several times in a six-second round.) Burst-fire weapons almost invariably fire three rounds per pull of the trigger. Fully-automatic weapons mostly have a firing rate of some multiple of three rounds per second (12-15 for many assault rifles, for example). To me, this suggests that 3-round groups are a handy unit around which to build firearms rules.

Recoil models the actual difficulty of controlling multiple, rapid shots. Without it, all characters would equip full-autos and rock-and-roll at the drop of a hat.

 

[Ranger REG]

The four rates of fire are patterned after real-world smallarms. Semi-automatic weapons can fire only one shot per pull of the trigger, and most people can pull a trigger no more than three times in a second. (I allow a combatant to fire three rounds per attack, as more skilled shooters will be able to fire several times in a six-second round.) Burst-fire weapons almost invariably fire three rounds per pull of the trigger.

By that definition, since both expend the same amount of bullets, both should do the equivalent of d20 Modern version of Burst Fire. So there really isn't much of a difference between the rapid firing of semiautomatic and 3-round burst fire setting of most assault rifles and submachineguns (certain firearms possess this setting to conserve ammunition).

Recoil models the actual difficulty of controlling multiple, rapid shots. Without it, all characters would equip full-autos and rock-and-roll at the drop of a hat.

Then again, some firearms managed to minimize or even cancel recoil.

 

[jonas889]

I was just reading Forbidden Kingdoms the pulp adventure d20 game and the firearms rules are very similiar. Recoil is a number designated to each type of fire arm and affects the accuracy to hit when firing single shot, double shot, triple shot, 3round, 5round, ten round, and 50 round bursts.

Go pick up this book. Once you read this section you will never use another firearm system again. Until something better comes along. But it's pretty good.

 

[Mordane76]

Well, I'm looking for greater realism in these rules. IMHO, d20 Modern completely bungled autofire. Spycraft or Weird Wars do a much better job without getting unduly complicated, and these rules are closely based on those sources.

I haven't actually read either of those...

I think the part that confused me was the new numbers, then changing the feats in effect to those new numbers...


I got thrown about halfway through the paragraph on feats.

Feats. Advanced Firearms Proficiency allows a character to experience normal Recoil penalties (without it, all Recoil effects are _doubled_ due to inexperience). Burst Fire is not used. Double Tap eliminates the Recoil penalty on a double-shot from a SA weapon. Point Blank Shot eliminates the Recoil penalty on the first 3-round group fired at a target within 30'. Strafe halves the penalty per square (-1 instead of -2) during a strafing attack. New feats are suggested by these rules, such as a long-range equivalent to Point Blank Shot that eliminates the Recoil penalty on the first 3-round group fired at a target over 30' (or whatever).

Okay -- I think I'm having difficulty integrating all the changes as I reach this paragraph. It feels like Double Tap gets weaker than d20 Modern's version. Point Blank Shot, unless I've forgotten what it does, seems to now do something completely different and unrelated to its d20 Modern equivalent.

So far, I'm in this conversation from a theoretical stance -- I haven't actually been able to PLAY d20 Modern yet, so I haven't seen/felt the rules in action. But, from what I've read, they feel easier to use and understand, and I think that is their biggest selling point. Of course, they're probably a bit bunk if you're experienced with using firearms, but I think I'd rather sacrifice a bit of realism for simplicity.

Give me about a week; I should have my first d20 Modern firefight under my belt by then. After I've seen the rules in action, I'll be able to say better if I think something like your proposal is necessary.