D&D General Alternate firearms rules (input needed)

Firearms will only have one range, with no damage on successful save for pistol, and 1/2 damage on save for musket (which I will likely rename arquebus). That will be the ability of the arquebus. Not sure about adding a rider to the pistol damage anymore. I like the idea of allowing still greater range with advantage on saving throws.
I like the advantage on saves for long range. Pistols are not range weapons more than 30ft
I’m having a hard time rationalizing upgraded damage à la cantrip other than having firearms stay relevant at higher level (which I can live with). I might have them deal an extra damage die per extra attack feature instead
What about exploding dice like Chromatic Orb. Have pistols deal 2d4 and if you roll doubles, you add another die, and another if that is the same number. Rifles deal 3d4 and add 1d4 if you have the feat for a better chance of rolling doubles.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Anyone can wield a musket or a pistol,
that's a bit of a problem, and one reason why firearms are bit loopy for D&D rules. Muzzleloaders were distinctly difficult to load and fire (particularly for matchlocks, which are rather unsuitable for a typical 'adventurers going into a dungeon' setting).... without training on how to do it, you can't really do it. OTOH, old firearms don't take years of training either, you can become proficient with them way faster than a sword. Maybe an easy shortcut would be 'have to have proficiency with firearms to use them'? I'm not very familiar with the 3E and later rules, so not really sure.
 

that's a bit of a problem, and one reason why firearms are bit loopy for D&D rules. Muzzleloaders were distinctly difficult to load and fire (particularly for matchlocks, which are rather unsuitable for a typical 'adventurers going into a dungeon' setting).... without training on how to do it, you can't really do it. OTOH, old firearms don't take years of training either, you can become proficient with them way faster than a sword. Maybe an easy shortcut would be 'have to have proficiency with firearms to use them'? I'm not very familiar with the 3E and later rules, so not really sure.
Oh but there is a proficiency for these firearms. Without the proficiency, you cannot load a firearm, and you don’t add your proficiency bonus to the saving throw. Without the proficiency, characters can fire a loaded firearm, but the target has a higher chance to succeeding on the save.
 

Oh but there is a proficiency for these firearms. Without the proficiency, you cannot load a firearm, and you don’t add your proficiency bonus to the saving throw. Without the proficiency, characters can fire a loaded firearm, but the target has a higher chance to succeeding on the save.
so, the existing rules already cover it? Okay.
 

I get the concept of having unique rules.

Personally I would not go that way. I’d stick closer to the mechanics for similar weapons, like heavy crossbows.

Maybe go with heavy damage and slow reloading, but keep the defense as AC instead of a save. But have the AC without armor?
 

I had worked on something similar a while back, but for crossbows at first. I wanted to have crossbows be simple and have firearms be the martial equivalent. Since combat is seemingly balanced around 3 rounds, I was trying to balance it so that if someone did Fire, Reload, Fire as their 3 rounds, it would be equivalent (which would mean the dpr target would be around 1.5). I also wanted to ensure it was 1 shot per attack, regardless of extra attack, and to have cantrip damage scaling.

After polling my players, the majority said they'd only use it for a 1st round shot and then would wait to reload, even if it was an action. That makes it 1.5x, 1x, 1x, would would just be a buff. The majority said giving up a whole action to reload was a non-starter.

I do also agree with those here that are saying they don't think you should have these be a Dex save. I totally know what you're going for, but plate armor was often "proofed" against bullets, showing off the dent where a bullet didn't penetrate ("bullet proofed").

If you want a mechanic that could be fun and unpredictable, you could do something like "roll 2 attack rolls, if both miss you do 0 damage, if one hits you do half damage, if both hit you do full damage, add 1 damage die for each attack that crits."
 


Is the design intent to have firearms as a primary weapon for a certain kind of build or subclass? Or are they more like one use items that a character might use before switching to their primary weapon? The action economy seems challenging for a character specializing in firearms.
 

I'm a fan of having gunpowder be Dex saves, and I even think the save DC should be set by the gunsmith and not the wielder. And although I understand the historic complaints about armour piercing being exaggerated, there's plenty of D&D weapons that are based on the fantasy of the weapon and not the historical accurate way they were used. IRL you don't use strength to beatdown your opponent with a greatsword, but that's still how D&D does it, and frankly it's right to do it that way because it's still fantasy.

By going with Dex saves, especially a fixed value, it fits the idea that it's a weapon you can equip commoner's with and train them up quickly into an effective fighting unit and not a weapon that is about individual skill of the wielder. However this typically should mean the weapon is basically not meant for the PCs since PCs are all about individual skill. Obviously players can use them, but if the action economy sucks and there's no feats/subclass features that fix it then most players won't use them.

Naturally if the players aren't the ones who are going to use them then what's the point? My answer for this is that it has a very big setting impact, because their power comes from massed volleys. And that means there's a big change to the typical power dynamic. In the past the world needed heroes like the PCs because they were the only ones who could deal with a rampaging dragon. But in a world of firearms, you mass a few hundred militia and that dragon is going down, so who needs adventurers to deal with monsters?

Being part of a dying breed of combatant has a lot real world inspiration to draw from and isn't typical, so should feel fresh. And of course during the campaign the players will show that heroes are still needed even in this new age of science and guns.

Now having said all that if you do want it to be PC wielders then my suggestion would be write the weapon such that when making an attack with a firearm only one no matter how many extra attacks you get, but scale the number of damage dice based on those extra attacks and have an exploding dice mechanic. So for example, if it starts at 2d6, and gains an extra 2d6 for each extra attack and whenever you roll a 6, you add an additional d6 which can also then explode. For feats/class featurs/magic enchantments beyond typical extra damage, or riders that you add, having a focus on dice manipulation like re-rolling 1s &2s, or lowering the exploding die so that it's say 5 & 6 that explode, can bring out the fun of chasing that higher and higher damage totals. Effectively the player is trading multiple low damage attacks for one high damage save, this is typically a bad trade to make so don't be too scared to let the damage really get pumped upwards.
 

Late to the conversation, but I feel like a DEX Save against firearms feels like you are dodging bullets.
Is that better then dodging magical lightning bolts?

Dex save should in theory also represent a general shiftiness. When you remember that taking turns is just an abstraction and nobody is just standing around, that Dex save is easier to picture as the person is moving and is harder to target.
 

Enchanted Trinkets Complete

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Remove ads

Top