Alternate History: Magic The Gathering Never Exists. What Changes for D&D?

[thedungeondelver]

Following TSR's bankruptcy in 1999, Kenzer & Co. sweep in and pick up ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS for a song at the property sale. ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, 3RD EDITION is released to much fanfare. It now uses the HACKMASTER engine, but without the gonzo stupidity forced on it by Wizards of the Coast: there is no "parent company" so afraid of the old system gaining popularity that they have to smother it, mock it, and make it into a joke.

With a promise of more control and a return of THE WORLD OF GREYHAWK as the default setting, Gary Gygax is lured back to the company initially as a consultant.

Troll Lord Games becomes the first 3rd party licensed product producer for AD&D.

Reaper Miniatures gets the go-ahead to produce a line of official AD&D miniatures.

Systems like ALTERNITY, STAR FRONTIERS, GAMMA WORLD, BOOT HILL and BUCK ROGERS are allowed to "lapse" and either revert back to the original authors or can be had for a song.

Oh and here's something super important:

David C. Sutherland III isn't DISMISSED WITHOUT SO MUCH AS AN INTERVIEW AND DOESN'T WIND UP DYING AS A DIRECT RESULT.

...

Now as far as the fate of the hobby gaming industry? No idea. With White Wolf on the outside giving TSR some competiton, I'm sure things would stay dynamic.

 

[Nifft]

David C. Sutherland III isn't DISMISSED WITHOUT SO MUCH AS AN INTERVIEW AND DOESN'T WIND UP DYING AS A DIRECT RESULT.

So, are you actually David C. Sutherland III's vengeful, bitter ghost?

Cheers, -- N

 

[teitan]

TSR goes bankrupt, AD&D disappears as is usually the case the highest bidder simply lets the IP languish having bought the companies assets for exploitation in TV, movies, video games and more novels but releases only a few novels before letting the IP fall into limbo. White Wolf becomes the no. 1 company but is not able to hold the interest of the casual gamer and the industry disappears by 2010.

 

[SiderisAnon]

Magic Saved Your FLGS

So many people complain about Magic. It's so horrible. It's a curse. It's caused all these problems in the industry. It causes problems for my FLGS.

Magic: The Gathering saved your local FLGS and quite possibly saved the industry. (Pokemon helped as well.)

I have friends who run gaming shops. One is still running strongly, one closed a couple of years ago. Both have been in and around the gaming industry for years. Some people I know used to run a gaming distribution company (they've since retired). Over the years I have heard a lot of information about the ins and outs of gaming and the profit margin from these people.

They are also the ones who convinced me that the beliefs I had picked up from other gamers about the evil of card games were dead wrong.

These card games mean more sales for your local FLGS. Without the cards, there are gaming shops that would have closed years ago. These sales don't compete with our gaming supplies. They don't take much shelf space up at all. One poster noted that his FLGS got out of gaming supplies for card games, but that's not a common theme and strikes me as a problem with the FLGS, not with the card games.

As for the kids who play Magic taking up space ... yes, they do. They also spend money on cards when they do all those tournaments, and that helps the gaming store pay for that space in the first place. Sure, we have little room for D&D on a Friday night because of Magic, but without the card game we might not have a store at all.

Yes, the kids can be loud and obnoxious. On the other hand, have you ever really taken a good look at RPG gamers??? There's a reason that the hobby is known for people with few or no social skills. However, having hung out with both RPG'ers and Magic players, I can say that they all pretty much the same people. Both groups have obsessed players who can talk for hours about their favorite thing in the game, have some regular players, and have some casual players. I admit that the RPG players tend to be a bit older on average, but that's partially because our hobby has been around a LOT longer than Magic.



Wizards of the Coast is a company. That means they are looking for a profit. They are not a religion. They are not a government service. They are not a charity group. They're a company, and they have to act like one. Collectible card games make a steady profit for them. Collectible miniatures add a little more to the steady profit. That steady profit helps them keep their doors open and allows them to hire writers and artists to produce quality RPG stuff. (Yes, they produce some books that make me wonder why they bothered, but obviously these books are selling, which means there's money coming in that might finance a book I want.)

Sorry for the rant, but I see all these posts complaining about WOTC and how they do things. While I might not agree with everything with WOTC does, I can say that their business practices have not only SAVED my favorite game, they have released numerous books that have been of great value to me. (Not to mention the numerous publications I've bought that were put out under the OGL.) As far as I'm concerned, they've improved the hobby, not ruined it.

If the prices I have to pay for that is that WOTC releases a few books I'll never want to buy and has some rules I don't agree with because they want to sell more miniatures ... well, that's no price at all. I've never been one to buy every book by a gaming company I like (assuming they have a decent line size) and I've been writing house rules for thinks I didn't like for over 20 years. So, not real bother. *shrug*

 

[Prince of Happiness]

TSR releases a new game that has ninjas, pirates, dinosaurs, monkeys, Samuel L. Jackson, and Chuck Norris doing battle.

The internet is all abuzz, and even garners mainstream media attention as this game gets closer to release.

It bombs terribly, since because it's the internet, people were only going to "internet buy" the game.

No more D&D forever.

 

[Sejs]

TSR goes bankrupt in 1998 and its properties are sold off piece-meal.

None of the companies that acquire it have the broad market share or the disposable income to properly sell the small, sporadic attempts at product revival.

By 2001 the game is scattered across a half-dozen holders, each trying to be independent of one another. There has been no far-reaching renewal of interest in the brand.

By third quarter 2001 D&D finally expires, not with a bang but a whimper.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

I just remembered- wasn't it rumored that Mattel was interested in buying out TSR back during their "Time of Troubles"? If so, I wonder that that wouldn't have happened if WotC hadn't stepped in. D&D might have become more of an action figure oriented game in that case.

(Hey- if it meant more toys like the LJN figures, I'd have been hard pressed to dislike it. )

 

[fusangite]

I think that the market would be smaller, first of all. Its demographic base would have aged even more than it has anyway.

What we have to askis : what other sources of energy were there in the market in 2000 and what forces that exist now would have naturally arisen independent of the D20/OGL WOTC business model?

I see two independent areas of innovation, production and gaming culture generation: White Wolf and the Indie Narrativist movement. I think that both of these loci of gamer culture would likely have more adherents today and greater influence on what gaming meant. As a result, I think we would have gaming that was very focused on questions of story and of genre with simple mechanics more likely to act directly on story unmediated by character.

People who were interested in "crunch," would all be much more like diaglo and other old-school adherents but I imagine this would be a shrinking part of the market rather than the ascendant one.

So, I would predict a smaller number of RPG stores full of setting books very focused on mood and genre, adventures very focused on major NPCs and game systems that were compact and devoid of cross-game compatibility.

Now, this narrative really dises GURPS. But, in part, that's because I don't have much contact with the GURPS community.

 

[Remathilis]

Without Strong competition, TSR continues to languish in a mire of 2nd edition products. There is no need for wasted capital on Dragon Dice, Spellfire, etc, so money goes back into the general fund for more RPG products.

1997 sees the first return of Greyhawk, including a box set, modules and supplements.
1998 is the reintroduction of Oriental Adventures.
1999 announces AD&D 3rd edition. Unlike the d20 version, this is more of a patch/fix than a new system. As such...
A.) % Strength is dropped, and ability modifiers resemble that of BD&D.
B.) Half-orc, Monk and Assassin are re-introduced.
C.) Some classes are cleaned up and codified, but not the major overhauls. Each class still gains XP at different rates. Fighters get Weapon Focus built in, rangers are still Good, Clerics have a "specialty priest" ability built in (and customizable, hello supplements), wizards get bonus spells for int, and rogues get a better backstab and some defensive abilities (like Evasion). Monks and assassins look like those in Scarlet Brotherhood.
D.) Skills become based on pseudo DC system. Each skill is level + ability score bonus, DC set by DM. Otherwise, they look alot like NWPs.
E.) Some "feats" are included as WP.
F.) Magic is generally untouched, but spells are swapped out or altered some.
H.) Monsters have ability scores, but not much else changes.

To celebrate, WotC releases new books for Greyhawk, Realms, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, and Planescape.

2000. Sales of the Complete X Handbooks are strong, but complaints on how the new "character role" glut begins to happen. Do we need seperate roles for samurai, knight, and solider?
2001 A new Basic game in introduced, simplifiying and reducing the AD&D 3e line for novices. This attracts a lot of attention of BD&D players though, and the market begins to sustain two games, AD&D3 and BD&D3 (each with its own supplements).
2002 TSR acquires the rights to produce the LotR setting. This adds yet another setting to GH, Realms, RL, DL, PS, Mystara (BD&D), OA and LotR. To remove the bloat, PS and RL are rolled into a "generic" line, and DL is reduced to 2 supplements a year.
2003 Core Rules 3.5 facilitates a cheap, buggy, but generally accepted version of Online RPGing. KKWorld (named after founder Kevin Kulp) reals with the possibilties...
2004 Struggling to keep its fractured lines, TSR reduces GH, RL, PS, and DL to a minimum and focuses on LotR and Realms. Bioware's "Drizzt" game for the PS2 game brings in some new fans, and a glut of Drow material is published.
2005. TSR strikes a deal with Reaper. Official TSR minis are made again.
2006. TSR's LotR rights run out. They quickly ressurect DL as the du jour setting and push a line of novels to go.
2007 Facing a huge loss of cash from the loss of LoTR, WotC begins its "count to Fourth Edition" this year...

 

[Ace]

TSR goes bankrupt, AD&D disappears as is usually the case the highest bidder simply lets the IP languish having bought the companies assets for exploitation in TV, movies, video games and more novels but releases only a few novels before letting the IP fall into limbo. White Wolf becomes the no. 1 company but is not able to hold the interest of the casual gamer and the industry disappears by 2010.

This is pretty much what I think what happen too.

Gaming would exiost mainly in the hands of a few grognards and in MET Larps. TTRPG's would be gone.