Alternate Size Penalties to Attack and AC past Titanic

Beefermatic

Explorer
So, a problem I've long run into is the non-linear size penalty to AC and Attack. At a certain point it is impossible to compensate for as the bonuses super large beings gain are absolutely not equivalent to the minuses it receives. Thusly I've decided to post what I do to make giant sized creatures more viable and easier to use in game in terms of statistically.

What I do is very simple, on page 4 of the Immortals Handbook Bestiary Volume 1, there is a Size chart, labelled Table 1-3. here you can see that the minus to AC and Attack doubles each additional size and past the Titanic size category, the minus becomes very unbalancing. The way I compensate for this is to simply make it grow at the same rate as other statistical plusses and minuses gained or lost as size increases, gaining a simple -4 penalty each additional size category beyond Titanic.

Thusly, my size Penalties to AC and Attack gained past Titanic are as follows:

Titanic: -16
Macro-Fine: -20
Macro-Diminutive: -24
Macro-Tiny: -28
Macro-Small: -32
Macro-Medium: -36
Macro-Large: -40
Macro-Huge: -44
Macro-Gargantuan: -48
Macro-Collossal: -52
Macro-Titanic: -56


This is in more line with the Hide penalty and Grapple bonus and makes handling super large beings statistically quite simple and much more balanced. There is a bit of a discrepancy from Colossal to Titanic, but as the old Epic Level Handbook lays out the stats for Colossal + as a size category, and that size category is in essence Titanic, I just ignore it. Feel free to reduce the bonus to Titanic to -12 if you feel the need to.

Hope this variant rule makes your campaigns a little easier. :)
 
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Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Howdy Beefermatic mate! :)

yes the whole thing probably needed a rethink. I suspect I was thinking that once the size of the attacking appendage exceeds double a targets move speed its an automatic hit and thus a negative bonus was irrelevant.

I circumnavigate this problem in my new book where I have a bunch of really big monsters.
 

Beefermatic

Explorer
Howdy Beefermatic mate! :)

yes the whole thing probably needed a rethink. I suspect I was thinking that once the size of the attacking appendage exceeds double a targets move speed its an automatic hit and thus a negative bonus was irrelevant.

I circumnavigate this problem in my new book where I have a bunch of really big monsters.
Hey Krusty! Long time no chat.

For absolutely gigantic creatures, I agree, but as beings strong enough to tangle with Mega sized or much larger beings likely will be moving in miles or superluminally at that point, an automatic hit might be circumvented just due to the defending being not having the same reference point in terms of what is logically dodgeable, a being who can move at 10,000 miles an hour with perfect maneuverability may not, in terms of rules as written have the capability of actually moving like that defensively, but logically they should be able to effectively move and react accordingly, but I see where you're coming from with this.

I'm excited about your new book, I have a level 8 Ranger in 5th edition right now, I like the system. You know me, I'm a 3.5/ Pathfinder guy, but I like 5th edition as well. I assume the massive entities your making are for 5th ed right?

Also, out of curiosity and perhaps to reverse engineer for 3.5, how did you approach this situation, what do you do to compensate for massive sizes?

I appreciate all your feedback man. Happy New Years and I hope you had a nice Christmas (assuming you celebrate :) )
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Hey Krusty! Long time no chat.

Hey Beefermatic amigo! :)

I'm starting to knuckle down on the writing so I'll be a bit more present here in the months to come.

For absolutely gigantic creatures, I agree, but as beings strong enough to tangle with Mega sized or much larger beings likely will be moving in miles or superluminally at that point, an automatic hit might be circumvented just due to the defending being not having the same reference point in terms of what is logically dodgeable, a being who can move at 10,000 miles an hour with perfect maneuverability may not, in terms of rules as written have the capability of actually moving like that defensively, but logically they should be able to effectively move and react accordingly, but I see where you're coming from with this.

Well 10,000 miles per hour is only 17 miles per round. :p

But yes, I understand its all relative.

I'm excited about your new book,

OMG I wish I could spoil it all for you now - its going to be crazy. :love:

I have a level 8 Ranger in 5th edition right now, I like the system. You know me, I'm a 3.5/ Pathfinder guy, but I like 5th edition as well.

It has grown on me over the years. Its not perfect, but its a lot more accessible - especially for epic levels.

I assume the massive entities your making are for 5th ed right?

Yes. I will add a conversion table for all editions though.

Also, out of curiosity and perhaps to reverse engineer for 3.5, how did you approach this situation, what do you do to compensate for massive sizes?

Well you could say defeating mega monsters is a fantastic voyage for the heroes. :cool:

Depending on how high up the size scale you go, once a mega-monster enters the fray you pick the imminent collateral damage and start the time limit. That's how long the players have to beat the encounter before city/country/planet etc. is obliterated.

Standard attacks from epic characters will generally be ignored by such monsters. Though obviously I include such stats for those who want to try. Deities (dependent upon rank) will be able to face them toe-to-toe of course. Epic level mortals will have to come up with a plan B to slay such creatures BUT it is still possible.

I appreciate all your feedback man. Happy New Years and I hope you had a nice Christmas (assuming you celebrate :) )

I am just happy to get this whole year over with amigo, its been the worst year of my life. I did the bare minimum for Christmas this year.

That said my mental state is healthy again and I am super excited to show everyone this new book...when its ready of course. So I am looking forward to 2022...it will be EPIC.
 

Beefermatic

Explorer
Hey Beefermatic amigo! :)

I'm starting to knuckle down on the writing so I'll be a bit more present here in the months to come.



Well 10,000 miles per hour is only 17 miles per round. :p

But yes, I understand its all relative.



OMG I wish I could spoil it all for you now - its going to be crazy. :love:



It has grown on me over the years. Its not perfect, but its a lot more accessible - especially for epic levels.



Yes. I will add a conversion table for all editions though.



Well you could say defeating mega monsters is a fantastic voyage for the heroes. :cool:

Depending on how high up the size scale you go, once a mega-monster enters the fray you pick the imminent collateral damage and start the time limit. That's how long the players have to beat the encounter before city/country/planet etc. is obliterated.

Standard attacks from epic characters will generally be ignored by such monsters. Though obviously I include such stats for those who want to try. Deities (dependent upon rank) will be able to face them toe-to-toe of course. Epic level mortals will have to come up with a plan B to slay such creatures BUT it is still possible.



I am just happy to get this whole year over with amigo, its been the worst year of my life. I did the bare minimum for Christmas this year.

That said my mental state is healthy again and I am super excited to show everyone this new book...when its ready of course. So I am looking forward to 2022...it will be EPIC.
Man I like that imminent damage idea. That's bad ass.

I'm sorry your year has sucked man. If you want to talk, you can always PM me, I have Discord as well. Akira Whitlock and I are currently doing an IH campaign atm, I mean, if you ever want to be a player in your system, I'm happy to host for you man.

At the very least this year is over, fingers crossed next year is far far better. 🤞
 

Upper_Krust

Adventurer
Man I like that imminent damage idea. That's bad ass.

I have the occasional good idea. ;)

I'm sorry your year has sucked man. If you want to talk, you can always PM me,

I appreciate the offer buddy - I'll be fine. Over the worst of it now.

I have Discord as well. Akira Whitlock and I are currently doing an IH campaign atm, I mean, if you ever want to be a player in your system, I'm happy to host for you man.

That would be great fun. :D

Currently don't have the time for that but will see how my free time evolves over the next few months.

At the very least this year is over, fingers crossed next year is far far better. 🤞

I live in hope.
 

Beefermatic

Explorer


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