Alternate Vampiric Touch

[Knight-of-Roses]

Well, changing it from untyped damage would be easy enough as it is in current D&D terms obviously negative energy. And you should not be able to gain HPs from undead or constructs, they have no life to steal after all.

 

[Knight-of-Roses]

So, to deal with the untyped damage problem, Variant Vampiric Touch, Mk II:

Saving Throw: None (See Below)

You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d8) with a bonus equal to your spellcasting ability (Intelligence for Wizards, Charisma for Sorcerers, and so on). However, you cannot inflict more than the subject’s current hit points +10 in damage, which is enough to kill the subject.

Creatures protected from negative energy (such as by a death ward spell) receive a Will save for no damage and only suffer half damage on a failed save. Undead only suffer half damage from this spell, as it cannot properly strip their life energy away. Constructs decay and corrode from the loss of energy (they still take damage) but do not provide anything usable to the caster.

If the target was a living creature (i.e. not a constuct or undead), you gain the hit points inflicted as damage, this has two effects:

* First, you heal any damage you current have at the rate of each for two points inflicted, you heal one point of damage. You must heal as much damage as you can up to the amount of damage inflicted.
* Second, any remaining damage becomes temporary hit points equal to the remaining damage. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.

 

[Muddman]

Seems like alot of work for a spell that is already as good as fireball and lightning bolt and in conjunction with Spectral Hand is way better.

Besides, I believe it breaks the damage cap set by the DMG for a 3rd level spell. Technically you're ok with the 10 dice damage cap, but no spell beneath 5th level uses d8's for damage. Then you throw in the "+1 per caster level" and its broken. And thats BEFORE you add in all your other stuff.

Furthermore, your spell allows you to heal in addition to all that. VP grants temporary hit points for a reason, because arcane spells aren't supposed to heal you, just buff you until the cleric can do his work. Heck, an actual vampire doesn't even heal from his life sucking, just grants him, you guessed it, temporary hit points. Arcane magic doesn't heal, with very few exceptions and those options are WAY higher level than 3rd. I think there is something at 8th level, but even that forces you to sacrifice spell slots for all of 2 points per level of the spell sacked, whoopedy doo.

The spell as written is perfect. Yes it effects one target and you have to touch them, but you get those hit points added to yours and they can't save against it or evade or resist in ANY way except SR which trumps ALL 3rd level spells.

You can dislike the spell as is all you like, but its balanced as is. If you want to change it in your game, have fun, but just remember that you're twisting something thats already fair simply because you like the spell and want it to do more, not because there is anything wrong with it.

Cheers

 

[DiceGolem]

Suddenly, the Duskblade (PH2) comes to mind.

 

[Knight-of-Roses]

It is very interesting to read about how other groups play. It reminds me how different play environments are from group to group.

Muddman: Your comments mostly echo what has been said above. The "untyped damage" issue is dealt with to some extent in the revised VVT above.

But as to arcane spells not healing, so what? I could point to the obviously rejoiner about Bards have cure spells and such, but why? In most cases, getting temp HP is better than the healing provided by the VVT spell but the "healing" is a much better thematic fit. And for me, making the theme work and be cool is part of the design goal. (And as far as monsters go there is no real difference between temporary and real HPs. So using the vampire as an example is not helpful.)

DiceGolem: How so?

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

Huh. I've never had a problem with Vampiric Touch's utility.

Just don't bother with it at 5th. Somewhere around 9th or 10th, when one of the party meat shields has a spell-storing weapon, well, it pays for the scribing-to-book cost admirably.

I agree it should actually heal you, though.

 

[Shieldhaven]

I'm actually in the same boat (and occasionally the same role-playing group) as Knight-of-Roses. I haven't seen this spell abused, or even used-normally. The arcane casters I've played with are generally discouraged by the spell's limitations. (Though let me tell you, next time I play a wizard, I'm going to give this spell a shot.)

I think there's a canonical history within D&D of allowing arcane casters to heal themselves with this spell. The general explanation is something like, "Healing is 'restricted' (ignore the bard, please) to divine magic because arcane magic can't generate new positive energy, or at least not without great difficulty (cf. Simbul's Synostodweomer)." VT sidesteps this by acting as pure transfer - it takes positive energy out of A and slaps it onto B.

If you follow this line of logic, though, something weird happens when describing the damage type. The spell can't be said to generate negative energy for its damage, because it's not generating energy and you can't reasonably say that the energy is still negative when it affects the caster. The spell doesn't generate positive energy in its attack, because positive energy almost never causes damage unless you're actually in the Positive Energy Plane. The spell sort of... creates a sinkhole in the target's life energy.

It's possible that I've only succeeded in muddying the water.

Haven

 

[Meeki]

In my games if you use spectral hand to cast VT, the hand gains the temporary HP's, not you because spectral hand allows you to deliver touch attacks but does not grant any other benefits. Same goes for spell storing.

 

[Knight-of-Roses]

Hey Shieldhaven! Interesting points. Brings up the question of how negative energy annihilating positive energy (which is what "energy drain" must represent) give the being of negative energy temporary "health" (in the form of temporary HP). You are right, probably best not to think about it too much.

Simia Saturnalia: Part of the reason for the rewrite our party's Necrourgist is 5th level and what's the point of having a cool 'signature' spell from your school if it is useless for another 3 or 5 levels?

I guess I think the additional 5-8 hp it inflicts at low levels is an acceptable trade for it doing 15-17 extra damage at 20th. But then, I rarely play high level games so I could be wrong. For the moment, I will use it as I have rewritten it. So far, it has not caused any problems but we will see what happens when the Necrourgist hits 6th level (and higher).

 

[Sylrae]

Vampiric Touch
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous/1 hour; see text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

You must succeed on a melee touch attack. Your touch deals 1d6 points of negative energy damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6) with a bonus equal to your spellcasting ability Modifier (Intelligence for Wizards, Charisma for Sorcerers, and so on). You heal hit points equal to damage you deal. However, you can’t gain more than the subject’s current hit points +10, which is enough to kill the subject. Any damage left over after the caster is fully healed gives temporary hit points instead. The temporary hit points disappear 1 hour later.

Creatures protected from negative energy (such as by a death ward spell) receive a Will save for no damage and only suffer half damage on a failed save. Undead are have the opposite happen, the caster's hit points are drained to heal the undead - if the caster is also undead nothing happens. Constructs decay and corrode from the loss of energy (they still take damage) but do not provide anything usable to the caster.

My Revisional thought on the issue. Comments?