Alternative Rogue Special Abilities
- Thread starter whydirt
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Kahuna Burger
First Post
whydirt said:
I would say 'very' but then I am not a fan of rogues. (in my campaign I have houseruled away some of their class skills because it made me annoyed that a rogue can be a better Bard (historical sense) than the bard is.) They already have more skill points by far and a lot of exclusive class skills. Allowing them to take on special abilities of other classes at high levels would just increase their hypergeneralization.
Kahuna Burger
Destil
Explorer
I don't see any problem with this at all, sine it's a much better solution than making yet one more prestige class, IMHO. From my owne house rules document:
Fast sneak (ex): When using Move Silently and Hide, the you can move at his normal speed without suffering a penalty to those skills, and only suffer a -10 penalty for running or -5 for quickly dashing to a hiding place (see PHB 69).
Lightning strike (ex): Whenever an opponent you threaten is denied their Dexterity bonus against you, you may make an immediate additional attack of opportunity, which is a sneak attack unless the creature is not vulnerable to your sneak attacks. Even if you have combat reflexes you may only do this once per round for any single target.
Slight of hand (ex): You may pick pocket any object you can hold in one hand easily (your size or smaller), with no penalty due to the size of the object. You could draw a fighters sword before he could, in some cases, and usually without him noticing...
Faceless (ex): In an urban environment with ten or more people about you can hide in plain sight by simply blending into the crowd, even if being watched. People have a hard time remembering your face, so any disguise penalties you may incur through someone’s familiarity with you (such as having wanted posters plastered across the city, or having run in with a certain town guard before) are negated.
Improved feint (ex): You may feint an opponent (see PHB 64) as a move equivalent action, rather than a standard action.
Ambush (ex): During a surprise round you are not limited to taking only a partial action.
Thorn in their side (ex): If others are flanking a target you gain the benefits of flanking against that target, even when you are not yourself flanking. This only applies to melee attacks.
Fast sneak (ex): When using Move Silently and Hide, the you can move at his normal speed without suffering a penalty to those skills, and only suffer a -10 penalty for running or -5 for quickly dashing to a hiding place (see PHB 69).
Lightning strike (ex): Whenever an opponent you threaten is denied their Dexterity bonus against you, you may make an immediate additional attack of opportunity, which is a sneak attack unless the creature is not vulnerable to your sneak attacks. Even if you have combat reflexes you may only do this once per round for any single target.
Slight of hand (ex): You may pick pocket any object you can hold in one hand easily (your size or smaller), with no penalty due to the size of the object. You could draw a fighters sword before he could, in some cases, and usually without him noticing...
Faceless (ex): In an urban environment with ten or more people about you can hide in plain sight by simply blending into the crowd, even if being watched. People have a hard time remembering your face, so any disguise penalties you may incur through someone’s familiarity with you (such as having wanted posters plastered across the city, or having run in with a certain town guard before) are negated.
Improved feint (ex): You may feint an opponent (see PHB 64) as a move equivalent action, rather than a standard action.
Ambush (ex): During a surprise round you are not limited to taking only a partial action.
Thorn in their side (ex): If others are flanking a target you gain the benefits of flanking against that target, even when you are not yourself flanking. This only applies to melee attacks.
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Oh, and as for the original question; any new rogue abilities should be at least as powerful as most feats, and could possibly be a little more powerful. If you want to give abilities exclusive to other classes and still have things be balanced, I guess I'd have to ask, which abilities? Something like Safe Poison Use (assassain, deepwood sniper) would be a good one IMO. But something like a bard's music abilities, or a bard's special lore ability, would be too powerful and would also rob the bard of what little uniqueness it has.
Re: Re: Alternative Rogue Special Abilities
The rogue isn't a better Bard than a bard is.
The rogue doesn't have any of the Knowledge skills as class skills and also lacks Bardic Knowledge. That alone would make him a less skilled bard in the historic sense.
"What do you mean you can't tell me of the historic battle of Krock Hill? What sort of bard are you?"
The rogue can be as skilled a performer / entertainer. That is a lot different than being a skilled bard.
Let the rogue have perform as a skill. It fits with a charisma based rogue; someone with lots of gather information, probably some pick pocket, and various other skills to distract or bamboozle an opponent.
Kahuna Burger said:
The rogue isn't a better Bard than a bard is.
The rogue doesn't have any of the Knowledge skills as class skills and also lacks Bardic Knowledge. That alone would make him a less skilled bard in the historic sense.
"What do you mean you can't tell me of the historic battle of Krock Hill? What sort of bard are you?"
The rogue can be as skilled a performer / entertainer. That is a lot different than being a skilled bard.
Let the rogue have perform as a skill. It fits with a charisma based rogue; someone with lots of gather information, probably some pick pocket, and various other skills to distract or bamboozle an opponent.
Kahuna Burger
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Alternative Rogue Special Abilities
*shrug* It also fits a charisma based cleric, including historical orders of singing monks. Or a charisma based fighter such as a gladiator or swashbuckler. Or for that matter a "charisma based" barbarian who works himself up for a battle with chants and dancing and creates ongoing 'ballads' of his victories...
But due to class skills and rediculously high skill points a high cha rogue and a high cha bard can both have maxed out peform, gather info, and diplomacy. Then the bard can split the rest of his points in a couple of ranks each of listen, some knowlege skills or ooohhh... alchemy. Meanwhile the rogue has also maxed out listen, spot, sense motive, bluff and a bit of read lips (great for still finding out whats up while you are loudly performing), tumble and such (physical performance), pickpocket (slieght of hand), or some cross class knowlege skills. Which would you rather play as a performer, frontsman, diplomat, information gatherer for the party, etc?
I love the idea of a bard. Which is why I've houseruled both it and the rogue to make the class actually the best choice for the idea...
Kahuna Burger
bret said:
*shrug* It also fits a charisma based cleric, including historical orders of singing monks. Or a charisma based fighter such as a gladiator or swashbuckler. Or for that matter a "charisma based" barbarian who works himself up for a battle with chants and dancing and creates ongoing 'ballads' of his victories...
But due to class skills and rediculously high skill points a high cha rogue and a high cha bard can both have maxed out peform, gather info, and diplomacy. Then the bard can split the rest of his points in a couple of ranks each of listen, some knowlege skills or ooohhh... alchemy. Meanwhile the rogue has also maxed out listen, spot, sense motive, bluff and a bit of read lips (great for still finding out whats up while you are loudly performing), tumble and such (physical performance), pickpocket (slieght of hand), or some cross class knowlege skills. Which would you rather play as a performer, frontsman, diplomat, information gatherer for the party, etc?
I love the idea of a bard. Which is why I've houseruled both it and the rogue to make the class actually the best choice for the idea...
Kahuna Burger
Maximillian
First Post
Meh. Bard with 6 skill points, rather than 4, works for me... but then again, I'll just wait and see what the revised DnD does come next July. Until then, my Bard/Cleric of Elistraee will continue to be perfectly worthwhile.
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