The Firebird
Commoner
I agree that constraints are important for creativity. I don't think it follows that all constraints are good, though.I mentioned constraints being useful for creativity. The players decided to climb a wall rather than take either of the two obvious approaches. You said there was less info about climbing the wall than the other options… specifically about what the guards’ response would be (however, you also said it was “harder”, so I’m assuming you had some information?). So you had to come up with something that happened next based on the incomplete info as well as the events of play. You were constrained by those things, and that constraint guided you and resulted in a satisfying instance of play.
So I’m applying that reasoning… that constraint fosters creativity (necessity is the mother of invention and all that) and Skill Challenges offer constraint.
They will; but they will treat the environment less faithfully and less realistically than they would have otherwise. If you're doing skills one by one, each outcome determines what follows in-universe. With a skill challenge, you have to consider the context..."they failed at this crucial step, but they had many successes banked and no failures yet, so I can't escalate too much...so I guess those guards must be somewhere else right now".You seem to think that a GM isn’t going to treat the environment and situation dynamically just because of the SC structure… but why? Certainly the subsequent actions taken will flow from the results of those taken prior. Surely a GM has a rough idea of the situation when he comes up with the details for the SC. He’s not just pulling numbers out of hats and then totally winging it.
Bold added. I don't see the difference here with respect to GM control.Well, no. Here is you choosing to describe one method from a fictional standpoint and the other from a mechanical standpoint.
“Get past the compound’s outer defenses” is the goal regardless of the method used. One method is “declare actions and succeed when the GM has determined you’ve achieved success or failure” and the other is “make three successes before two failures”, [which is what the GM determined you needed for success or failure].
It’s a flawed comparison.
The reason I used fictional description in one and mechanical in the other is because that's how I think of the problem. Once we enter SC land, I'm not trying to get past the defenses...I'm trying to get 3 successes. Without that structure, I'm focused solely on the fiction.
I am using Hunt to shoot the guard.How do you use Hunt? You can’t just say “I use Hunt” unless the reason why it’s applicable is bloody obvious. You have to explain the reason hunt is applicable.
I don't think I said most. Just that it happens often. Am I forgetful?Sorry, missed this bit in my last reply.
We’re talking about map and key resolution, right? That covers a wide swath of play… including a lot of adventure path play, which is arguably the dominant form of play in the entire hobby, let alone the trad sphere.
Now again… I’m not saying that map and key play or trad play CANNOT result in surprising play for all involved. Just your claim that “most” if it does. I think it’s clear that most of it is quite linear.