El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
Yeah, I'm with you (and Alnag) but everyone I think of ends up being "save the world" again. I just can't seem to break out of that damn box. Maybe I need professional help.
Alternatives to "Save the World"
- Thread starter Sir Robilar
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Yeah, I'm with you (and Alnag) but everyone I think of ends up being "save the world" again. I just can't seem to break out of that damn box. Maybe I need professional help.
Alnag
First Post
Well I don't know about Lost either. Maybe it will be "save the world" but at least it is not immediately obivous, it is rather a big picture in background of the survival theme (and others of course).
Star Trek - well, there are occassional saving the galaxy/Earth, First Contact is the most promiment and obvious of those. Star Trek Voyager is much more about (searching for a way home) and Enterpise is pure exploration. But I don't want to go too deep to his.
Alias - to be honest I have seen two series so far, so maybe it is saving the world as well, but sounds pretty much about puzzling to me.
But well... here are some more series.
Veronica Mars - teenage drama/investigation (both short- and long- term). This one is not very easy to adapt to DnD but definitely not saving a world either.
Firefly - well... this I can see as adaptable. But it has its feeling.
Dr. House - yet another not easily adaptable thing, but hell no saving a world here!
Not a TV-series, but still a good source for "no saving of world inspiration" is Witcher short-shories (not the novel and neither the PC game). Some of which would make a great adventures.
Or get something historical like war drama (Band of Brothers) or court intiques (Tudors) or pseudo-history (Robin Hood).
What about post-apocalyptical world (I am legend), what about Orwellian facist society (Equilibrium) or the evergreen naval adventures (Hornblower, Pirates of Carribean).
Of course... there are some motives of saving in those movies. But there are nor exclusive neither dominant. The thing is, to use wide spectrum of other themes and topics as well.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
There are several themes you can explore besides "saving the world", even if you are not limiting yourself to "save something smaller then the entire world".
I suppose Exploration and "murder mysteries" are these kinds of stories (in case of murders, you might sometimes save someone - but it's not the main motivation in many cases).
Once you enter "politics", you often come closer to saving something - because of course you want the right guys to come out on top to "save" the world/village/city from someone worse.
The question is: Is there really a "Epic" exploration or mystery to be made, something that really nails down your characters epic destiny?
Compare the impact of exploring a new material world (say, a second planet/Earth/plane similar to our own) at 30th level as noteworthy as saving the world from doom?
I suppose Exploration and "murder mysteries" are these kinds of stories (in case of murders, you might sometimes save someone - but it's not the main motivation in many cases).
Once you enter "politics", you often come closer to saving something - because of course you want the right guys to come out on top to "save" the world/village/city from someone worse.
The question is: Is there really a "Epic" exploration or mystery to be made, something that really nails down your characters epic destiny?
Compare the impact of exploring a new material world (say, a second planet/Earth/plane similar to our own) at 30th level as noteworthy as saving the world from doom?
garyh
First Post
Too deep? No such thing with Star Trek!
Big Enterprise fan here (yes,they exist), and I'd summarize ENT as:
Seasons 1 & 2 - Exploration ("strange new worlds" and all that)
Season 3 - Save the world (stop the Xindi from blowing up Earth sure fits)
Season 4 - Found a kingdom... er, Federation (forging alliances and playing politics with the founding planets of the UFP)
Several different D&D-appropriate themes in ENT alone.
cougent
First Post
I have thought about (but never attempted) a "temporal paradox" type theme. Similar in concept to the "save the cheerleader, save the world"; or "Terminator"; or "Star Trek: First contact" storyline. So while you are saving the world as a side effect, your actual goal is to save the child that will grow up to be the great Wizard / Fighter / Bard who will really save the world in another XXX years from now when the Demon hordes finally breach the planer barrier and overrun the planet...
Make a better world. Fight corruption. Better the lives of the commoners somehow. Build lasting humanizing institutions.
Be the best at something trivial. Build the best tavern, for instance. Maybe that means traveling around the globe to find new recipes, ingredients, and things to put on the wall. Maybe you decide you want to make your tavern travel the planes and serve exotic customers.
Wage a crusade against a single foe. I've often thought it'd be amusing to making a goal of exterminating goblins from the world, for instance.
Prevent a war. This could involve lots of intrigue, espionage, assassinations, sagotage, influence, etc.
Colonize the moon. With magic it'd probably be possible.
Create a zoo. Seek out exotic new species to dominate and bring them to your menagerie.
Re-colonize "Moria." For instance, my current character is a dwarf whose homeland was conquered by an enemy. His current goal is to drive that enemy out and bring his people back to their proper home.
Run a city/barony.
Be the best at something trivial. Build the best tavern, for instance. Maybe that means traveling around the globe to find new recipes, ingredients, and things to put on the wall. Maybe you decide you want to make your tavern travel the planes and serve exotic customers.
Wage a crusade against a single foe. I've often thought it'd be amusing to making a goal of exterminating goblins from the world, for instance.
Prevent a war. This could involve lots of intrigue, espionage, assassinations, sagotage, influence, etc.
Colonize the moon. With magic it'd probably be possible.
Create a zoo. Seek out exotic new species to dominate and bring them to your menagerie.
Re-colonize "Moria." For instance, my current character is a dwarf whose homeland was conquered by an enemy. His current goal is to drive that enemy out and bring his people back to their proper home.
Run a city/barony.
Alnag
First Post
Actually, I've made a fantasy DnD with temporal paradox in it. Where the main villain of the story was one of the PCs but older. And he transfered his immortality to that PC so that he can not commit suicide. It was very huge success
Gothmog
First Post
Save the world . . . BY DESTROYING THE WORLD!Sweet
I did this with a Midnight game once. The players decided that the only way to escape misery and endless oppression by Izrador would be to destroy the world. To that end, they investigated myths, rumors, and prophecies, and they adopted a very amoral stance- if they killed someone now, they were sparing them the pain and suffering of continued existence, and everyone was going to die when the world ended anyway. We never got to finish that campaign due to real-life interruptions, but it was a lot of fun.
I tend to stay away from "save the world" type games (and I dislike D&D epic game play over level 12 or so), because honestly, its been done about a bazillion times before. I'll have to see how 4e plays above level 10, but so far it looks much more interesting. In the past, I've used the following themes in "save the world's" place:
- Quest for knowledge, especially regarding the true nature of reality which is being hidden and suppressed by the gods (kinda like fantasy Kult- this one was one of the most fun to play).
- Banish the gods, demons, supernatural entities from the world, to allow the mortal races to live their own lives as something other than pawns.
- Aspire to high political positions, and let the PCs run their own kingdoms, churches, etc. This one had a lot of intrigue, politics, backstabbing, etc- and was fun, if very competitive.
- Try to bring about a prophecy which the PCs believe will accomplish some goal.
- Explore a previously undiscovered continent/plane/etc.
- At the dawn of the world, set up the first civilizations and empires, as a basis of what will come later. We had a lot of fun with this one too- and a later campaign used the same world about 2000 years later, basing the cultures and civilizations off the world the players built.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
"Save the World" seems way too often just meaning to keep the status quo instead of getting to a worse state. But maybe the "trick" is to change the status.
1) Make the world a better place.
Get rid of some evil or injustice. I don't know about 4E Forgotten Realms, but if it still contains the Wall of the Faithless, that's exactly the kind of "end-game" I could see - bring it down. The world doesn't get safer (hey, it might get worse - who knows what the faithless souls will do?), but you remove a (percieved) injustice.
Alternatively, you kill a major demon lord (for good - keeping them contained for 100 years is stuff for the heroic or epic tier ), or even Asmodeus himself.
2) Change the Rules of the World.
For example - you don't like the fact that the gods can meddle in mortal affairs. Remove them from the equation - banish them, slay them, or just force them into a deal. Nobody knows if the world is getting better by it.
Or you don't like souls getting "lost" after death - ensure that all souls will be given the option to reincarnate.
3) Widen the World.
Only very few people have the ability to move the Feywild/Shadowfell/Astral Plane. Change it. Create a way so that anyone can will himself to go there.
Or alternatively, there are other material worlds out there - find a way to permanently open a portal to one of them, so that the other world(s) can be explored.
4) Create Something Big
Found a new nation, or better yet, a union of nations that will oversee the world to do whatever you want them to do - bring world peace, gnome genocide or what-you-have.
---
One of the hardest parts is to figure out how to resolve the final steps to the non-world-saving. The standard model - especially in D&D - is to end a plot with a combat against the BBEG or whatever he summoned or allied with. But combat hasn't to be the only option.
1) Bringing down the Wall or a Demon Lord can end with two big armies (with the PCs in the lead of one) fighting it out. But it could also end with a major skill challenge where the PCs have to convince the gods that the wall has to go (whether the PCs just convince them "morally" or by saying that the alternative is that they kill a few of them before they go down might depend on how the campaign went so far and how the skill challenge works out)
2) Changing the Rules could require the party to reach a mystical (and warded) place where they can make the change. They might have to kill or subdue the Raven Queen, or they have to complete a major ritual in the mystical place - or both.
3) Find the "Keeper of the Gate" that controls all interplanar travel, and kill/subdue/convince him. Or again, perform a ritual.
4) The party might first need to win a major war. Or they just have to get in contact with all major rulers, get them to a meeting and convince them of their proposal (skill challenge/role-playing time).
1) Make the world a better place.
Get rid of some evil or injustice. I don't know about 4E Forgotten Realms, but if it still contains the Wall of the Faithless, that's exactly the kind of "end-game" I could see - bring it down. The world doesn't get safer (hey, it might get worse - who knows what the faithless souls will do?), but you remove a (percieved) injustice.
Alternatively, you kill a major demon lord (for good - keeping them contained for 100 years is stuff for the heroic or epic tier
), or even Asmodeus himself.2) Change the Rules of the World.
For example - you don't like the fact that the gods can meddle in mortal affairs. Remove them from the equation - banish them, slay them, or just force them into a deal. Nobody knows if the world is getting better by it.
Or you don't like souls getting "lost" after death - ensure that all souls will be given the option to reincarnate.
3) Widen the World.
Only very few people have the ability to move the Feywild/Shadowfell/Astral Plane. Change it. Create a way so that anyone can will himself to go there.
Or alternatively, there are other material worlds out there - find a way to permanently open a portal to one of them, so that the other world(s) can be explored.
4) Create Something Big
Found a new nation, or better yet, a union of nations that will oversee the world to do whatever you want them to do - bring world peace, gnome genocide or what-you-have.
---
One of the hardest parts is to figure out how to resolve the final steps to the non-world-saving. The standard model - especially in D&D - is to end a plot with a combat against the BBEG or whatever he summoned or allied with. But combat hasn't to be the only option.
1) Bringing down the Wall or a Demon Lord can end with two big armies (with the PCs in the lead of one) fighting it out. But it could also end with a major skill challenge where the PCs have to convince the gods that the wall has to go (whether the PCs just convince them "morally" or by saying that the alternative is that they kill a few of them before they go down might depend on how the campaign went so far and how the skill challenge works out)
2) Changing the Rules could require the party to reach a mystical (and warded) place where they can make the change. They might have to kill or subdue the Raven Queen, or they have to complete a major ritual in the mystical place - or both.
3) Find the "Keeper of the Gate" that controls all interplanar travel, and kill/subdue/convince him. Or again, perform a ritual.
4) The party might first need to win a major war. Or they just have to get in contact with all major rulers, get them to a meeting and convince them of their proposal (skill challenge/role-playing time).
Isn’t this the flip side of the “I don’t like ‘save the world’ campaigns because what do you do next?”
* Save-the-world works well with closed-ended campaign that reach an end
* Non-save-the-world works well with open-ended campaign that continues indefinitely
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