Alternatives to Thug Tactics

[Bow_Seat]

That's only true if there is a metagame reason for the monsters to know that the rogue gets more damage when not attacked, like a mark.

If I were DMing and the monsters were of average intelligence then I would not have them gang-up on the rogue until he started doing insane damage every turn. In combat if one enemy is showing himself as being considerably more powerful than another it would make sense to switch to targeting the deadlier one.

 

[Leatherhead]

If I were DMing and the monsters were of average intelligence then I would not have them gang-up on the rogue until he started doing insane damage every turn. In combat if one enemy is showing himself as being considerably more powerful than another it would make sense to switch to targeting the deadlier one.

But how would they know that? Damage is an abstraction, just like hit points. It's not like anyone sees a green bar and floating red numbers that let everyone know how much damage is being done.

An enemy sees his friend Bob get stabbed by a woman with a sword, followed by George catching that sword in the gut on the back swing. Then some weird shouting and a bunch of fire flashes in their eyes as everyone gets painfully burned. Finally, someone else comes in and finishes off Bob while everyone is distracted.

Which target is the "most powerful?" On the meta level, we know the rogue dealt the most damage in one attack, but that couldn't have possibly been communicated, and that is ignoring the multi-target attacks that the fighter and the wizard were slinging around.

 

[DEFCON 1]

What about this one:

Thug's Oportunism
When you attack an opponent in melee who has taken damage since the end of your last turn, you can apply your sneak attack damage. (Even if you do not have advantage.)


- It models ganging up. (Although you might do it with an opportunity attack.)
- It doesn't always work. (Unless your friends have auto-hit)
- It doesn't offer real advantage, which at some point designers said should require an action.

Not bad. I myself would just change it that the opponent would need to take melee damage in the round, rather than just damage in general. So it can be accomplished with just one other ally, but you both need to be in melee with the opponent in order for Thug Opportunism to work. That way the Thug can't get it via spellslinging allies. And the loss of one requisite additional ally from Thug Tactics is offset by the need of the remaining ally to hit and do damage.

 

[Bow_Seat]

But how would they know that? Damage is an abstraction, just like hit points. It's not like anyone sees a green bar and floating red numbers that let everyone know how much damage is being done.

An enemy sees his friend Bob get stabbed by a woman with a sword, followed by George catching that sword in the gut on the back swing. Then some weird shouting and a bunch of fire flashes in their eyes as everyone gets painfully burned. Finally, someone else comes in and finishes off Bob while everyone is distracted.

Which target is the "most powerful?" On the meta level, we know the rogue dealt the most damage in one attack, but that couldn't have possibly been communicated, and that is ignoring the multi-target attacks that the fighter and the wizard were slinging around.

I can get behind the idea that the friend person not taking the damage would not be able to figure it out. It's always been my thinking, however, that intelligent enemies can interpret which foe has posed the most mortal threat to them in combat so far and then focus on them.

As an arbitrary example, if the fighter is doing about 15 damage per round to some bbeg, and the rogue is doing 20 damage per round to the same guy. Then the guy getting ripped apart here would probably understand that the rogue is the one who is more threatening to his life. Someone away from the battling, however, could probably not conclude that just by watching.

 

[1of3]

Not bad. I myself would just change it that the opponent would need to take melee damage in the round, rather than just damage in general. So it can be accomplished with just one other ally, but you both need to be in melee with the opponent in order for Thug Opportunism to work. That way the Thug can't get it via spellslinging allies. And the loss of one requisite additional ally from Thug Tactics is offset by the need of the remaining ally to hit and do damage.

I like it. I'd make it "hit by a melee attack" then. That would include cases of damage reduction.