Am I completely off base?

[Limper]

I'm noticing I seem to see it different than the many of the rest of my group. I'm looking for a more inclusive answer here. I'm trying to see how the community at large views this.

In game are we not trying to simulate reality?

I am and the mechanics and stats are the backbone/tools for doing this (the flesh and life being role-playing).

I can say my character has done lots of stuff... has been in a profession or craft for decades helped defend his village... you know all that stuff which creates a rich background for the PC. Eventually dice are rolled.... at this time my suspension of disbelief willfaulter and be ruined... suddenly with the roll of a die... my rich back story is for nothing I'm level 1 and regardless of how I envisioned the character he/she is an incompetant 15 year old neophyte.

Role-Playing is only PART of the game it is only part of the suspension of disbelief, only part of a rich believable fantasy environment. I as a player do not care to be penalized and limmited to lvl 1 neophyte children for my choices as soon as my well designed, depthy backgrounded PC is put to the test I have to roll a die and something my character was supposed to have been doing for 10 years is now beyond him... I try through out the next few sessions and its not until I've slain a host of foes can I succeed.

This is my opinion of the game and of role-playing... regardless of what happens... regardless of how perfectly I describe what my character is doing I have to roll dice.... and at this time without "significant" stats my role-playing and efforts are nothing but hot air. For me suspension of disbelief also needs a concrete mechanic grounded basis... other wise we're playing make-believe... and the game for me is no longer fun.

 

[Darkness]

D&D isn't the best system to handle such characters. Heck, not many level-based systems are...

 

[Psychotic Dreamer]

It sounds like what you want is an interactive story. Where there is no chance of your character failing at what they are doing, unless you want them to.

Part of roleplaying games in general is that there is a chance for your character to fail at something. Even in the real world there is always a chance of failure at something no matter how good at it you are.

 

[Harlock]

... other wise we're playing make-believe... and the game for me is no longer fun.

Umm, if you make it all up it is make-believe. It seems to me if you want your character to have a background and history beyond neophyte, you should start at some level other than 1. The first level character is made to begin a life of adventure etc.: To MAKE his/her history. A character who doesn't fail rolls is a greater deity. If you don't like the system, don't play it.

 

[Crothian]

I'm not sure I follow. Your saying that you've placed something in your background (what?) that you have been doing for ten years and when you try to do it in game you cannot because you have to roll a die? All new characters are not going to be good at things. But there are ways to be good at the one thing you've been doing for ten years. It's also very possible that you are not describing something that should be done by a first level character. That's something I've seen. People write up backgrounds and would have to be fifth level or even higher to do what they say they are doing.

 

[Umbran]

It's difficult to tell if you are off base when what point you wish to make isn't particularly clear.

You start off noting that the character you created couldn't do what you wanted in the rules, but then noted how you really think the rules need to be there. I'm not sure what your point is.

In RPGs, we do try to simulate a reality. Every reality we'd care to discuss has rules. Our real reality has physics and chemistry and the rules of human behavior. Games have dice mechanics and other conventions to help everyone stay, "on the same page".

One standard rule for game realities is that the characters all start at a specified point in their careers. The usual default point is early in their careers, though many games and GMs choose some later point.

The situation you describe is one in which the player has broken that rule. He's created a character with more background than is appropriate. Having broken one of the rules of the game, it isn't odd that you'd run into problems. If you simply restrict your history to one consistent with a low-level character, you'd find the issue goes away.

If you find that you really don't want to play such a character, that's okay, too. Just find a game that's starting, or has already reached the point you'd prefer to play.

 

[Aaron L]

Some people forget that RPGs are roleplaying games . They aren't just roleplaying. To be a game, it has to have a few rules, and some possibility of failure. Failure at something, be it losing the game, or failure to do exactly what you want to do.

 

[Limper]

I'm guessing this require's a bit more context.... this is an on going debate in my gaming group and there is much which appears not to seen by my rant (I guess I was thinking you all had telepathy... sorry).

I've grown tired of playing what I see as unrealistic characters or the same old neophytes all the time... I'd like to be able to make a character who was better represented in skills , on who had some background... the Leaving Twin Rivers thing has gotten very annoying.

I've been working on a system to better represent a complex background for PC's to increase the options for writing up new characters (by the way its in the "I need opinions... " thread I started).

My DM is now saying I'm not a good role-player because I can't just role-play background.... I've posted this to garner some feed back and possibly ideas on how to resolve my predicament (quiting leaves me without a social life so I'd prefer ideas OTHER than you need a new group.... but I'll take that as well). I would like more to work with in PC creation. I find it hard to suspend my disbelief that my vetern blacksmith (10 years) who's even by DM backstory helped the defend the town dozens of times. Is incapable of repairing or making things because I have to hit a particular DC and with +5 (total) to my check I cant. True my bonus is low but lvl 1 does that to you.... and I truely think the system needs some better options. Am I the only one who is tired of playing starting characters who have to kill many foes in order to be good at my trade I was supposed to be practicing for a decade AFTER my apprenticeship ended? I dont mind failing but not at something I'm supposed to be good at.

Darkness you are so very correct on that one... I just wish one of the skill based systems covered as much ground as d20 and with the same ease of use.... it would also help if I knew anyone playing anything else. I like d20 mechanic's in most aspects.... but it does need some help.

I hope this helps.....

 

[Andor]

I'm noticing I seem to see it different than the many of the rest of my group. I'm looking for a more inclusive answer here. I'm trying to see how the community at large views this.

In game are we not trying to simulate reality?

That is one possible mode of roleplaying. In a fantasy game the short answer is 'No. We are trying to simulate a reality. But not the one that we as players reside in.'

I am and the mechanics and stats are the backbone/tools for doing this (the flesh and life being role-playing).

Correct. If you are playing a superhero game and your character jumps off a building without the 'Flight' power written down on his sheet then he is not just a superhero, he is a delusional nutcase and if he is very lucky he is like the Tick, and can survive being a delusional nutcase.

I can say my character has done lots of stuff... has been in a profession or craft for decades helped defend his village... you know all that stuff which creates a rich background for the PC. Eventually dice are rolled.... at this time my suspension of disbelief willfaulter and be ruined... suddenly with the roll of a die... my rich back story is for nothing I'm level 1 and regardless of how I envisioned the character he/she is an incompetant 15 year old neophyte.

If you design a character whose game statisitics do not match his background that is your fault as a player. Designing a first level D&D fighter who is supposed to be a veteran of a hundred wars is just a silly as a GURPs character who is supposed to be an ace fighter jock and has no piloting skill. You have to take the limitations of the system into account when designing a character.

Role-Playing is only PART of the game it is only part of the suspension of disbelief, only part of a rich believable fantasy environment. I as a player do not care to be penalized and limmited to lvl 1 neophyte children for my choices as soon as my well designed, depthy backgrounded PC is put to the test I have to roll a die and something my character was supposed to have been doing for 10 years is now beyond him... I try through out the next few sessions and its not until I've slain a host of foes can I succeed.

If you do not wish to play a starting character, then you should either discuss starting at a higher level with your GM, or you should play another game like GURPs or Champions or Shadowrun. A first level D&D character who is supposed to be an expert anything is just as much a mis-match as if he were supposed to be a super-hero or starfighter pilot.

This is my opinion of the game and of role-playing... regardless of what happens... regardless of how perfectly I describe what my character is doing I have to roll dice.... and at this time without "significant" stats my role-playing and efforts are nothing but hot air. For me suspension of disbelief also needs a concrete mechanic grounded basis... other wise we're playing make-believe... and the game for me is no longer fun.

You are absolutely correct. If your character does not have the statisitics to back up his beliefs then he is delusional. If he does not have the statistics to match your beliefs then you are delusional and your suspension of disbelief popping is the cold hard intrusion of reality.

There is nothing wrong with playing a character who is experienced or skilled at something. It does require however that you not play a 1st level D&D character. The system does not model powerful first level characters any better than it models superman.

The disconnect here is your assumption that you should be able to play such a character simply because you want to play such a character. If that is what you want to do, discuss it with the rest of your group, if everyone wants that sort of a game then great, start everyone off with 5/10/15th level characters. If they do not wish to play such a game then either you must reach a compromise with them, or find another group to play with.

-Andor

 

[Psychotic Dreamer]

With the right ability score and a skill focus you could have a maximum total skill of 10. 4 for being 1st level, 4 from an ability score and 2 from the skill focus. To me that seems to give a pretty decent chance of being good at your chosen career.