Am I completely off base?

[Crothian]

Limper just move near me. If you want an expert blacksmith, fine he can be a 20 level Expert with 5 figher levels. That make you happy?

All that and live in Wild and Wonderful West Virginia, too. Actually, that brings up a new topic, when moving how big is the gamins scene in determing where one lives. Hmmm.....

 

[reapersaurus]

Limper - so, in other words, they don't trust their roleplaying abilities?

That's so weak.

If they really were any good at roleplaying, they would guaran-damn-tee that regardless of what level their PC started at, they would have a firm handle on the character and be able to roleplay them well enough.

That's what detailed back-stories and a well-designed character are for!

 

[madriel]

My bloody group LIKES low level.... and we get to start over regularly for a variety of reasons.

Crothian that's a nice simple solution. I like it.

I've been playing the game for over 20 years... I've not only run out of "just starting" concept's but actively dislike them. I suggested a system to try to resolve this for myself and the other two players who are tired of playing children all the time and WHAM the accusation which set me off in the first place hits.

I'm writin my nuggets off.... workin on my own stuff. After over a decade its hard to get a new group.... not physicaly you know... emotionaly. They're my friends even the DM.

Since you're working on your own stuff and there's two other players who want a change, you could try dm'ing a second campaign and run it once a month.

Otherwise, point out to the group that you and the other two are always getting outvoted. Since the three of you probably represent about half the group, point out that it's only fair to do things your way occasionally.

Another idea to try is have the DM roll a d4 before character creation starts. Whatever number comes up is the starting level.

Best of luck, Limper.

 

[Limper]

Nightfall I just got back from vacation in your neighboring state.... West Virginia is a very beautiful state I live in envy.

Crothian for me it would be very important.... a few years ago I didn't take a job based on the fact that the town it was in didn't even have a shop.... the nearest place was in North Carolina.... St. Louis ain't so bad.

 

[Rahkan]

Rahkan

This reminds me of a villain I was making the other day. He was a level 8 psion (telepath) who was going to be the party's nemesis for a few sessions. The point is that instead of taking the most useful level 1 abilities like Charm Person (he got Domination and level 4), he took some kind of "sense the past of an object" skill and other skills that would really help out a high-level guy but would have gotten him killed if he was low-lvled.

The point is that if I had been making a level 1 psion his skills would have been totally different, except that wouldn't he have chosen those skills at level 1 and thus still have them at level 8? Thats kind of what making a high-level character is about. It really lets you ignore that whole trade off between power now and power later. But the level 8 psion sure did have much cooler powers (and they fit together alot better), which might make him a more realistic character. But his powers also didn't follow a logical progression, making him less realistic?

The debate between high-level vs. low-level character creation just reminded me of that.

 

[Nightfall]

All that and live in Wild and Wonderful West Virginia, too. Actually, that brings up a new topic, when moving how big is the gamins scene in determing where one lives. Hmmm.....

Well I can tell you right now Crothy, unless you have friends living on Campus at WVU, you're out of luck other wise. It's pretty much a few small state colleges and Pittsburgh at this point!

Originally posted by Limper
Nightfall I just got back from vacation in your neighboring state.... West Virginia is a very beautiful state I live in envy

Glad you like it Limper. I personally live in Denial but most times I'm stuck in Morgantown.

 

[Crothian]

Well I can tell you right now Crothy, unless you have friends living on Campus at WVU, you're out of luck other wise. It's pretty much a few small state colleges and Pittsburgh at this point!

No one I personally know there now. Did have some high school friends go there in the mid 90's though. You coming up for Origins? Figured I ask since you really aren't that far away.

 

[Nightfall]

Crothy, thought about it...but finances are tight, so it's unlikely. If I DO go, I'll let you know. That way you and me can hook up at one of the SL events they are running there. However as I said, it doubtful this year. Perhaps next year.

 

[S'mon]

A person who has practived a craft for 10 years is not a first level character. Also, if you truely are a devoted Blacksmith you should have 4 ranks, skill focus, and MW tools. That's +8 without an attribute. But I digress, the real point is this should not be the background of a first level character. That's the problem.

However, to address this I offer 8 bonus skill points at first level for background skills. Not all characters get this. You need to have a good background and then as DM, I decide what background skills you have based on your background.

*Tch*

If you want to run a world where all experienced people are level 2+, fair enough. But it's clear from the DMG's town generator that the standard assumption is that the vast majority of the population are 1st level commoners, experts, some warriors, a few adepts and aristocrats - almost all 1st level, and by necessity including many people with 10+ years experience in their craft. Thus the 'expert' blacksmith is not a 10th level Expert, he's a 1st level Expert with Skill Focus (blacksmith), 4 ranks in craft (blacksmith), and a decent stat bonus (+2 to +4) for a total skill bonus of +8 to +10 - easily enough for most mundane tasks. The blacksmith who also trains actively in weapon skills will be a 1st level Warrior or (if heroic/PC) a Fighter. By the rules, only if his defending the town has involved personally slaying numerous foes (at 150 XP/orc, that's 7 orcs killed personally) would he need to be level 2+.

 

[bwgwl]

In game are we not trying to simulate reality?

FWIW, in the games I DM, i'm trying to simulate movies.

i get enough of reality during real life!

i think the best suggestion so far was madriel's -- grab those other two gamers who agree with you and start up a second campaign. start it at above 1st level or use a system more amenable to comptetent starting characters like HERO or GURPS.