Am I completely off base?

[Crothian]

I find it hard to suspend my disbelief that my vetern blacksmith (10 years) who's even by DM backstory helped the defend the town dozens of times. Is incapable of repairing or making things because I have to hit a particular DC and with +5 (total) to my check I cant.

A person who has practived a craft for 10 years is not a first level character. Also, if you truely are a devoted Blacksmith you should have 4 ranks, skill focus, and MW tools. That's +8 without an attribute. But I digress, the real point is this should not be the background of a first level character. That's the problem.

However, to address this I offer 8 bonus skill points at first level for background skills. Not all characters get this. You need to have a good background and then as DM, I decide what background skills you have based on your background.

 

[Harlock]

Ahh now it makes more sense. It seems to me (and I've only heard your side of the story of course) that if your character has 10 years of history as a blacksmith and your DM has approved this, that you should not be a level one character. With 10 years experience you should probably be an expert of some level. And, since your DM has also said that you have had a history of fighting, a level or more of warrior might be in order as well.

As for your DM saying your not a good roleplayer because you can't roleplay background, well, frankly I misread that or something because I don't get it. You sound as if you care about background and you seem to be focusing on what your character can do and that indicates to me that you at least CARE about roleplaying. As for getting a new group, I know how hard that can be. I'd say stick it out unless it becomes unbearable but look for a new group in the meantime.

If you're tired of playing low-level characters talk to your group and see if they are interested in a mid to high level campaign. Or, if you can, start your own group. Hope that helps.

 

[Andor]

Re: Re: Am I completely off base?

The disconnect here is your assumption that you should be able to play such a character simply because you want to play such a character. If that is what you want to do, discuss it with the rest of your group, if everyone wants that sort of a game then great, start everyone off with 5/10/15th level characters. If they do not wish to play such a game then either you must reach a compromise with them, or find another group to play with.

-Andor

Sorry, I see from your later post that you understand this. But to use your example of a black smith.

Fighter 1.
Craft (blacksmith) ranks 4
Skill focus (blacksmith) +2
Masterwork tools +1
Working in his own smithy (+2 circumstance bonus)
With the assistance of his apprentice (+2 assistance)

Without a stat bonus this character hits a DC21 while routinely taking 10. Not too shabby. He probably needs more than one attempt to make a masterwork item, but is this surprising for a run-of-the-mill village blacksmith?

Trying to patch armour on the road, without help, outside his accustomed surroundings his odds are poorer. Does this also not make sense?

D&D 3E come closer by far than any previous D&D system to allowing mundanely competant 1st level characters. If you want to be truly exceptional however you must be higher level.

If you only know the D&D system and your group prefers fantasy, try GURPS, or the HERO system, or Ars Magica, or World Tree or some other point based character creation system. Characters start off more powerfully but grow more slowly under these paradigms.

-Andor

 

[Limper]

My bloody group LIKES low level.... and we get to start over regularly for a variety of reasons.

Crothian that's a nice simple solution. I like it.

I've been playing the game for over 20 years... I've not only run out of "just starting" concept's but actively dislike them. I suggested a system to try to resolve this for myself and the other two players who are tired of playing children all the time and WHAM the accusation which set me off in the first place hits.

I'm writin my nuggets off.... workin on my own stuff. After over a decade its hard to get a new group.... not physicaly you know... emotionaly. They're my friends even the DM.

 

[Crothian]

Crothian that's a nice simple solution. I like it.

Thanks. I sort of understand where you are coming from. I use the system because I feel that in such a world everyone is trained in either a proffesion or a craft so that they can make a leaving. No one is raised as an adventurer. However, when I play I've yet to convince the DM to use this rule. So, I've yet to pl,ay a character with a less then a 14 Int so that I can spend skills on what I feel is background skills.

 

[Limper]

Thanks. I sort of understand where you are coming from. I use the system because I feel that in such a world everyone is trained in either a proffesion or a craft so that they can make a leaving. No one is raised as an adventurer. However, when I play I've yet to convince the DM to use this rule. So, I've yet to pl,ay a character with a less then a 14 Int so that I can spend skills on what I feel is background skills.

I know that feeling well.... I had a 13 once had to be human though and at lvl4 my barbarian got an Int point.

 

[reapersaurus]

Limper, I sympathise with your banging your head against the skills system in 3E, but I agree with the others in this case:
1st level characters do not encompass the entirety of character concepts.

It seems obvious that this blacksmith character shouldn't be starting at level 1, properly.

But my question to you is:
WHY does your party continually want to start at level 1?
You'd think about the 3rd time thru, they might want to start around level 4 for a change...?

 

[kreynolds]

I can say my character has done lots of stuff... has been in a profession or craft for decades helped defend his village... you know all that stuff which creates a rich background for the PC. Eventually dice are rolled.... at this time my suspension of disbelief willfaulter and be ruined... suddenly with the roll of a die... my rich back story is for nothing I'm level 1 and regardless of how I envisioned the character he/she is an incompetant 15 year old neophyte.

Role-Playing is only PART of the game it is only part of the suspension of disbelief, only part of a rich believable fantasy environment. I as a player do not care to be penalized and limmited to lvl 1 neophyte children for my choices as soon as my well designed, depthy backgrounded PC is put to the test I have to roll a die and something my character was supposed to have been doing for 10 years is now beyond him... I try through out the next few sessions and its not until I've slain a host of foes can I succeed.

This is my opinion of the game and of role-playing... regardless of what happens... regardless of how perfectly I describe what my character is doing I have to roll dice.... and at this time without "significant" stats my role-playing and efforts are nothing but hot air. For me suspension of disbelief also needs a concrete mechanic grounded basis... other wise we're playing make-believe... and the game for me is no longer fun.

I'm currently running an experimental game with three players, and it might just wet your whistle.

Basically, in this game, you play YOU. You take all of your skills, all of your knowledge, all of your history, guage your stats based on what you can do, pick some feats based on your uniqueness, etc. Guess what the best part is. It's all free. After all, you're playing you after all. So, you start off, at 0 level, as you are right now. Then you earn levels, grab your classes, and improve upon who you are. It's pretty cool actually. So far, the game has been goin' great.

There is, however, one really big twist to the whole thing...you actually are YOU. It's pretty different.

 

[Limper]

Hey reapersaurus how is life treating you?

The lame excuse for liking low level is.... it lets you get more in touch with your character (?). They seem to think that playing from lvl1 will make for a more natural character.... you make all your development decisions based on "role-playing <gag>" reasons. NOT that anyone has done it....

 

[Nightfall]

Limper just move near me. If you want an expert blacksmith, fine he can be a 20 level Expert with 5 figher levels. That make you happy?