D&D 4E Am I crazy? I've just gotten a hankering to play 4e again...

[Garthanos]

I think the "level 1 fighters have 11 options" is probably not exaggerating... OTOH mostly you use a few of them, and there are some that come up fairly seldom.

5e hid mechanical options in their presentation for instance I proximate a 4e level 1 as a level 5, 5e character for a number of reasons but it is also flavor correct. (with half level advancements there after) .A level 5 or so, 5e warrior can do 2 attacks and that can be a combo mixed up of shove or trip or grapple alongside other attacks... want to shove one enemy back and trip another? Powers in 4e are generally required for those to be combat ready abilities.

 

[Garthanos]

Feats mostly contribute to the "character building" portion of the game, moreso than the tactical complexity of pl

Generally I will be buy that. However my character who is able to hit two enemies with his cleave and use to enhance single enemy capabilitt because of a feat feels at least at low levels like his tactical options are definitely expanded.

 

[NotAYakk]

Yes knowing what to upgrade to feel like you only empowered what you have is annoying

it would be nice to have that one so you could upgrade its range, the movie characters doing come and get it are often better ranged

Sure, but
Come and Get it + Weapon, Close, Exploit, Fighter 7
Close Burst 3
Attack: Str vs Will
Hit: Pull 2 squares. If they end the pull adjacent to you, they take [W]+Str damage.
At Higher levels: If taken as a 23 power, range becomes Close Burst 5, damage becomes 2[W]+Str, and you gain resist 10 to damage from the creatures hit until the end of your next turn.

That fits the 4e model, and prevents double-dipping, and doesn't burn a new power card sized space for the new power. And it means that at level 23, you gotta write new powers to look like content, not copy-pasta.

 

[darjr]

@Eyes of Nine from one beholder to another, eye see you

 

[Garthanos]

And it means that at level 23, you gotta write new powers to look like content, not copy-pasta.

Indeed encourages designers to dig deeper. Which to my thinking also encourages the idea of making epic separately presented tier delayed from the original phb.

 

[cbwjm]

...unless you also cut out (slightly less than) half the monster's defenses, high-level fights are going to quickly become impossible.

I also really don't get why 5e's Proficiency bonus is cool, when it's literally quarter-level, but 4e's half-level bonus isn't?

For me, the issue wasn't with 4e's half bonus, it was the fact that everything on the monster side scaled up along with it so that your odds of hitting were still more or less the same against equivalent opponents. The thing this really did was make it so that lower level heroes couldn't hit high level opponents. I'd have liked it more if they removed the +1/2 level to attacks and skills, reduced the enemy defences by the same amount, used ability scores and feats for scaling.

 

[cbwjm]

I like the flavor of upcasting and players that I have seen use it like the flexibility I was wondering if we could bring something like it to 4e

You should be able to, look at average damage of powers of the same type (blasts, bursts, single target, etc) as you gain the new powers and then increase the damage or effect by the same amount. I can't remember the levels you gain new powers, but if say a level 1 encounter burst power deals 2d8 damage and the level 7 burst powers deal 3d8 then allow the 7th level encounter power to be expended to cast the 1st level power with an extra die of damage.

 

[Garthanos]

For me, the issue wasn't with 4e's half bonus, it was the fact that everything on the monster side scaled up along with it so that your odds of hitting were still more or less the same against equivalent opponents.

The idea that things should not be about the same against equivalent opponents seems bizarre to me - it is what the equivalent kind of means

 

[cbwjm]

The idea that things should not be about the same against equivalent opponents seems bizarre to me - it is what the equivalent kind of means

To me it just felt like it was superfluous to the game, you rank up but you aren't really getting better, you still have the same chance to miss against the enemy or fail a skill check. Could have removed that scaling bonus and the game would have largely played out the same.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

@Eyes of Nine from one beholder to another, eye see you

I was just admiring your new avatar!