D&D 3E/3.5 Am I missing something (shapechanging in 3.5)

[Corporal_Cupcake]

Con change /= HP change?

Honestly, you really don't think that becoming healthier/more vital (i.e. increasing your CON) would increase your toughness/ability to take greater amounts of damage without dying (i.e. increasing your HP)? I don't know; I'm not meaning to be all lecture-like and stuff, but wouldn't you think that polymorphing into a creature with a thick, buff body would entitle you to the extra HP that the body naturally possesses? Or that changing into a fly would cause you to be susceptible to being crushed between a mailed fist and a bar table?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Except that as long as I can remember, a polymorphed creature has retained its own hit points.

The 1E PHB description of Polymorph Other pointed out that it would be impossible to kill a brontosaurus polymorphed into an ant by stepping on it, and a mummy polymorphed into a puppy would be incredibly tough (examples from memory).

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

OTOH, second ed polymorph self changed what you looked like and basically nothing else.

Which really annoyed me when I turned myself into an ogre to hold a door shut, and was told my strength was still 3 (I was a fremlin...)

I'd much prefer to have con changes alter hit points. As it is, it's just wierd that the con of a new form basically doesn't matter (and it leads to an awful lot of gnome druids... +2 con means something, while -2 str doesn't).

 

[The Little Raven]

From the SRD:

CONSTITUTION (CON)
Constitution represents your character’s health and stamina. A Constitution bonus increases a character’s hit points, so the ability is important for all classes.
You apply your character’s Constitution modifier to:
• Each roll of a Hit Die (though a penalty can never drop a result below 1—that is, a character always gains at least 1 hit point each time he or she advances in level).
• Fortitude saving throws, for resisting poison and similar threats.
• Concentration checks. Concentration is a skill, important to spellcasters, that has Constitution as its key ability.
If a character’s Constitution score changes enough to alter his or her Constitution modifier, the character’s hit points also increase or decrease accordingly.

If you look at this... the effective hit point entry I posted, as well as the hit point entry... ANY temporary change of Constitution results in additional hit points, whether they come from a magical item, spell or effect. However, they are not lost first, like temporary hit points.

Thus, a wizard with 57 hp transforms into something that gives him an additional 13 hp (for a total of 70) better not take more than 57 damage... because after he changes back, he will suffer the full effects of the damage.

 

[The Little Raven]

The 1E PHB description of Polymorph Other pointed out that it would be impossible to kill a brontosaurus polymorphed into an ant by stepping on it, and a mummy polymorphed into a puppy would be incredibly tough (examples from memory).

Using a 1st Edition spell as an example for how the 3rd Edition spell works is extremely faulty... especially the new Polymorph would never allow a brontosaurus to turn into an ant because of the difference in size.

From Alter Self:

The new form must be within one size category of your normal size.

And since Polymorph is "As Alter Self," then your brontosaurus (Huge) could not turn into an ant (Fine).

Polymorph lifts the restriction on changing your creature type, but it does nothing to lift the restriction on size.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Using a 1st Edition spell as an example for how the 3rd Edition spell works is extremely faulty...

Yup.

But in 1e, Polymorph didn't change your hit points.

In 2e, Polymorph didn't change your hit points.

In 3e, Polymorph didn't change your hit points.

In 3.5, Alter Self doesn't change your hit points, and Polymorph is "as Alter Self".

In 3.5, Alter Self doesn't change your Con, and Polymorph is "as Alter Self", except that it specifically changes your Con. But there is nothing to overrule the "your hit points don't change" provision from Alter Self.

Normally, a Con change affects your hit points. But this is an exception. It was a clear and specific exception in 3e; it's an implicit exception in 3.5.

-Hyp.

 

[green slime]

I agree with Hypersmurf.

The Con change does still alter your Fort save, though.

 

[Force0]

I have found that "keeping" the hps can be very problemtic, especially combined with magic jar/mind switch, and am in the camp of keeping only your base HD, unless you want mages "gaining" permenent Hps from thin air.
Anyway, that's my take on it.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I agree with Hypersmurf, and would put forth the notion that the increased toughness of your new body is more accurately described by Natural Armour bonuses, and a higher Fort save.

 

[Plane Sailing]

They put the HP provision into Alter Self not because Alter Self need the clarification but because later spells based apon Alter Self need that clarification.
.

I hope that they didn't *really* indulge in this kind of doublethink, it would have been completely mindless!

The sensible option on WotC part would be to have put that restriction only in the Polymorph description, since that is where the clarification is actually needed! Alter Self cannot change attributes and thus the hp provision is meaningless there.