D&D 3E/3.5 Am I missing something (shapechanging in 3.5)

[James McMurray]

The Polymorph and Shapechange spells no longer mention that you retain your own hitpoints. Does the new body's CON now change your hp, or am I missing something in another section of the book somewhere?

 

[Camarath]

see the spell Alter Self

 

[James McMurray]

Ah, good. I had this terrible vision of monstrous spellcasters gaining tons of hit points from high constitution scores.

 

[youspoonybard]

While your base HP doesn't change, I'm inclined to say that your Con mod does change your HP, for better or for worse.

They removed the one exception to the HP and Con mod rule in the spell, which leads me to believe it does.

I'm not sure, though, and can go either way.

 

[Hypersmurf]

They removed the one exception to the HP and Con mod rule in the spell, which leads me to believe it does.

Polymorph is "As Alter Self, except".

Alter Self contains, in two separate sentences: a. Your ability scores do not change, and b. Your hit points do not change.

Polymorph states that your Con does change, specifically differing from Alter Self on point a. But it makes no mention of hit points, so point b remains intact from Alter Self.

Thus, when you Polymorph, your hit points do not change.

-Hyp.

 

[reapersaurus]

peanut-gallery comment:
And WHY should we have to deduce this?
Did a 3.5 professional writer actually reject the one sentence extra that would have clarified it within the spell description, thereby forcing cross-referencing of other spells to understand how a spell works?

Do they think that's what customers prefer, at the benefit of saving ~10 words?

 

[The Little Raven]

Polymorph is "As Alter Self, except".

Alter Self contains, in two separate sentences: a. Your ability scores do not change, and b. Your hit points do not change.

Polymorph states that your Con does change, specifically differing from Alter Self on point a. But it makes no mention of hit points, so point b remains intact from Alter Self.

Thus, when you Polymorph, your hit points do not change.

-Hyp.

Have to step in here, Smurf.

Your hit points do change. In the 3.5 Player's Handbook (page 308)...

effective hit point increase: Hit points gained through temporary increases in Constitution score. Unlike temporary hit points, points gained in this manner are not lost first, and must be subtracted from the character's current hit points at the time the Constitution increase ends.

And the last sentence in the "hit points" entry on page 309...

A character's hit point total increases permanently with additional experience and/or permanent increases in Constitution, or temporarily through the use of various special abilities, spells, magic items, or magical effects (see temporary hit points and effective hit point increase).

So... if Polymorph increases your Constitution enough to raise the modifier, then you gain an additional hit point per HD while polymorphed.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If Polymorph increases your Constitution enough to raise the modifier, then you gain an additional hit point per HD while polymorphed.

Except that the spell description (since it's "as Alter Self") specifically precludes a change in hit points.

-Hyp.

 

[sithramir]

Agree with Hyp...

 

[DreamChaser]

the two ways this can be interpreted; either:

your based hit points (derrived from HD) do not change but any adjustment to your con do cause it to change.

or

you hit points do not change no matter what happens to your con as a result of the spell.

I have a feeling most are going to choose one or the other and argue vehemently that their way is right.

DC