D&D 3E/3.5 Am I missing something (shapechanging in 3.5)

[Kirowan]

I agree with Hypersmurf on this one.

Nick

 

[youspoonybard]

I want to agree with Hyp, it's just that, AFAIK, this was *the* one exception to change in con = change in HP.

Not having the little text there makes me indecisive. Argh!

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

What concerns me is that the other ability scores don't change. Shouldn't polymorphing into a Giant do something for your Strength?

 

[Kirowan]

You gain the Str, Dex, and Con of whatever creature you turn into with polymorph.

Nick

 

[Camarath]

This sentence is the linchpin IMO.

From 3.5 SRD Alter Self

"Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same."

Unless Polymorph or Shapechange states that your HP would change then it remains the same dispite any change in Con. I don't think that anyone would argue that you should replace you class levels with the new forms HD. The only provision stating that you retain your class levels is this sentence here. So if we are going to ignore part this sentence why don't we go ahead and ignore it all.

 

[Urbannen]

What's the point of getting a better Con score and a bigger, tougher body, if you still have the Hp of a measly mage? Fah, let'm have the Con bonus to Hp.

 

[shilsen]

What's the point of getting a better Con score and a bigger, tougher body, if you still have the Hp of a measly mage? Fah, let'm have the Con bonus to Hp.

Getting hit by a Fort save spell which your measly mage body couldn't resist and laughing it off?

 

[Urbannen]

Anyway, Alter Self says: "Your ability scores don't change." then "Your hit points don't change."

Well, duh. If your Constitution doesn't change, and neither does your HD, then your hit points wouldn't change either.

RAW, I guess you wouldn't change hit points, no matter what, for Polymorph and Shapechange. It doesn't seem exactly consistent, however, to have your Con bonus change and not have your hit points change. I don't think it makes sense, and I vote for letting hit points change according to the new Con modifier of a form achieved through Polymorph or Shapechange. Screw the "official" rule.

All in favor...

waits for deafening silence

(FYI, it might even result in a lower number of hit points than the original form. )

 

[Camarath]

Anyway, Alter Self says: "Your ability scores don't change." then "Your hit points don't change."

True but polymorph says it functions as Alter Self and it states that it changes you Con but it does not say your HP changes so the Alter Self provision mandating that you keep your normal HP still applies.

Well, duh. If your Constitution doesn't change, and neither does your HD, then your hit points wouldn't change either.

They put the HP provision into Alter Self not because Alter Self need the clarification but because later spells based apon Alter Self need that clarification.

RAW, I guess you wouldn't change hit points, no matter what, for Polymorph and Shapechange. It doesn't seem exactly consistent, however, to have your Con bonus change and not have your hit points change. I don't think it makes sense, and I vote for letting hit points change according to the new Con modifier of a form achieved through Polymorph or Shapechange. Screw the "official" rule.

If you would like to change the way the spells works you are welcome to do so. We were discussing the proper interpretation of the "official" rules.

 

[youspoonybard]

The thing is, I'm just hesitant to put that down, because it very well may only refer to the fact that a lot of things you'd Shapechange into have different/more HD than you. You'd keep your base HP, no matter what, but the con mod may change it...

No offense to you guys, I would just like a line from Wizards verifying this one way or the other. I play a Druid, and I like the "keep your HP rule", so that small bird forms are still viable.