Am I the only one who thinks Incarnum is hokey?

[Sarellion]

This is an odd statement. Why isn't "don't buy the book in the first place" an option? Last I checked, WoTC books aren't mandatory purchases. Or by "exclude" do you mean "don't buy it". I read this as, "don't include those rules", but maybe I'm reading more into that than I should.

I think that he already got the book, so I meant "Don´t use the rules in the book you already bought if you don´t like them."

Well, don´t buy it is also a valid option.

 

[MavrickWeirdo]

So, I get that essentia is your own life force. Incarnum is universal ambient life energy, like the Force is to Jedi. You manipulate this stuff. Fine.

What I don't understand is why the entire system has to be bizzare and not resemble either of the two well-developed systems of magic or psionics. Couldn't you model the use of your own internal energy using psionics?

Well, I guess that wouldn't sell more books, according to their vision.

I actually can understand your point that having "unified metaphysics" and not wanting to rewrite your world's history, but as others have pointed out, new homebrews are created all the time. When Ghostwalk first came out it probably did not fit in most "Whole-Cloth-Homebrews" but at this point there are probably many people who include it.

As far as the "purpose" of it in the "grand-scheme" I would say that if you consider Psionics classes a replacement for Arcane Magic classes, then Incarnum characters would be a replacement for Divine Magic classes in a world where Psionics was the dominant form of magic.

How hard would it be to adapt Incarnum into a Dark Sun based game?

 

[Mad Mac]

I don't have the book, but it looks very interesting to me. I'm not overly fond of the "metaphysics" either, at least to the extent that I don't find it a natural fit to the mechanics. All the individual feats and "spells" I've seen though...very cool and flavorful.

 

[Laman Stahros]

In my homebrew, Incarnum is the name given to magic in an isolated section of the world. Is it a different type of energy from regular magic? No, but my players may not realize that right away. Incarnum is all about enhancing yourself, not about affecting the world around you. Totally different mindset, really helps point up the differences in culture. I love it. I hope WotC keeps trying new things like this.

 

[Andor]

In which sense? I value the consistency of a synthetic reality first, and the elegance of its mechanics second. The mechanics are merely tools that enable us to model interactions within the fantasy world. I would much rather have a metaphysically consistent and clear, but mechanically lacking world - such as In Nomine - than a world that is mechanically great but wherein no one has any idea of what the true cosmic order is like. My statements are therefore made from this perspective.

It's great that you value metaphysical consistancy, no sarcasm intended or implied. However if you have it in your game you have already rule-zeroed or rewritten the fluff for a whole bunch of stuff. Core D&D has NO cosmological consistancy about anything. I have several rants about it scattered on these very message boards. So what's the problem exactly? Either ignore Arcanum, it being as optional as optional gets, or rewrite the fluff to match your cosmology, just like you do for everything else WOTC publishes. Either way I don't see how complaining about innovation does anybody any favors.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I don't even own Magic of Incarnum and I know it includes a short section on incorporating it into settings which do not already include it.

Do you honestly expect Wizards of the Coast to produce only those supplements which happen to fit with your own campaign?

Hell, I actually think it's a good thing that books like Magic of Incarnum can't be incorporated into the Forgotten Realms and Eberron without at least a modicum of thought. I don't want D&D restricted to concepts which already work - I like that Wizards of the Coast is testing the boundaries of the game.

 

[William Ronald]

I don't even own Magic of Incarnum and I know it includes a short section on incorporating it into settings which do not already include it.

Do you honestly expect Wizards of the Coast to produce only those supplements which happen to fit with your own campaign?

Hell, I actually think it's a good thing that books like Magic of Incarnum can't be incorporated into the Forgotten Realms and Eberron without at least a modicum of thought. I don't want D&D restricted to concepts which already work - I like that Wizards of the Coast is testing the boundaries of the game.

I think WoTC has to be willing to try new concepts, otherwise the game could become stagnant. Also, for much of history in a fictional world, the players may have some idea of what happened but not why or how. (Indeed, it is entirely possible that the players and much of the rest of the world are unaware of many events, that were unrecorded or where the records have become lost. Some may have become legends or myths. So, a good model for understanding a campaign world is that it is much like an iceberg: three-fifths is below the surface, and may not be readily apparent. After all, we are discorvering new facts about human history in our own world when archeologists uncover records or ruins.)

I have not read Magic of Incarnum, or purchased it. However, there are probably many different paths to power, as well as different perspectives that people can take in a given campaign world. So, my advice is to look at any product, and decide how it may or may not fit into your game.

 

[Aaron L]

Dont look at it asd a new energy, because I see magic in a similar light. Look at it as a new method of harnessing these soul energies.

I look forward to getting this book.

 

[moritheil]

You can use it or you can file in on the shelf next to the other books you don't use... if there aren't any then your world has more internal consistancy problems then you let on

Zero

You're not the first one to imply or state this. Care to explain?

 

[moritheil]

I don't even own Magic of Incarnum and I know it includes a short section on incorporating it into settings which do not already include it.

Do you honestly expect Wizards of the Coast to produce only those supplements which happen to fit with your own campaign?

Hell, I actually think it's a good thing that books like Magic of Incarnum can't be incorporated into the Forgotten Realms and Eberron without at least a modicum of thought. I don't want D&D restricted to concepts which already work - I like that Wizards of the Coast is testing the boundaries of the game.

I congratulate you on what you know, and thank you for not attempting to assert that you can prove it.

My assertion is not that you have to think to incorporate it; it's that the more you think about it, the more you realize you CAN'T incorporate it smoothly. You have to be brain-dead, or at least willing to suspend logic, to do so.

I expect that WOTC would want to produce books that can be run together, much the same way that card game fans would expect that if they buy cards from the same game, they could be theoretically used together. What WOTC has done is the equivalent of taking M:tG and making a new color 'pink' that never existed before, destroying balance and an existing metaphysical scheme just to sell more packs.


For those of you looking for a link, here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050907a&page=3


Looking over some of the above posts, I'm seeing a lot of blind support for this product solely because it's new and it bucks the trend. I'm not sure that's healthy, but neither am I here to tell all of you what you can and can't think. I think it's sloppy and does not include helpful, plausible information on its integration into existing campaigns.

Dont look at it asd a new energy, because I see magic in a similar light. Look at it as a new method of harnessing these soul energies.

I look forward to getting this book.

My problem with that method, Aaron, is that it is no longer Incarnum if it isn't a new energy, is it? I say that the fundamental premise stinks, and you say I should discard it. Very logical. But without that premise, what reason is there for me to use this material at all?