Ampersand: 2011 releases officially gutted

And how about the magic items in their new classes that were 'revolutionized' by essentials? Yeah, that's what most of us who said it was a new edition though. WoTC couldn't even follow through on their own ball game.

To be honest, I'm having a hard time parsing your first two sentences, so I'm not even sure what it is you're actually questioning.

But as far as magic items are concerned... all I'd say would be this this: If you can't find what you need in your hard copies of Adventurer's Vault I and II... you probably need to lower your expectations on the kind of magic your players should have. ;)

There is enough printed 4E material out there to play the game for decades, even if you choose not to never subscribe to DDI. Even if every single new D&D book from this point forward was a strictly-digital affair... your game will in no way suffer. You have plenty to run a successful game. More than plenty, actually. Yeah, there might be some cool stuff released that you won't get to use because of your insistence that if you can't "own" it, you won't get it... but that will in no way make 4E any less a playable experience with just the books you have.

But that's even beside the point, because I suspect that there will always be a printed part of the game found on bookshelves. Simply because of keeping the brand active in game stores, bookstores, and websites means it can be physically purchased, thereby making it something to buy, gift and loan to get other people involved in the game. But if other "splatbooks" or character option races or build articles go straight the DDI before appearing in hardcover first? Not an issue.
 

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Actually this isn't entirely true. I am constantly amazed by games where people are insistent on "No essentials" (like this thread) or people running games that are "Essentials only".This is an absolutely terrible position for games to be split between for wizards.
You might be interested in checking out this thread if you have not yet done so.

The fragmentation of the D&D community... was it inevitable?

It shows a complete and absolute failure on their part to communicate clearly enough that essentials is just more 4E and fits in with everything else in the system.

Nevermind, you NEED to check out that thread; as does anyone not understanding this divide.
 
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I have to say calling the DS book a splatbook is absolutely hilarious. If that's what qualifies as a splatbook I don't know what's going on anymore.

On the topic of essentials. I don't really understand all the crying. I understand it from the perspective that it is taking development time away from what has been the normal 4E structure for 2+ years. Beyond that I really, really don't. Because honestly, all their doing is changing the framework a class can have and making it more diverse.

That's not why people dislike 3.5. No one ever cites the fact that the classes are all over the place in abilities they gain, feats, spells, whatever as a problem with 3.5. At least I've never seen that as a complaint. I'd much rather have variety in class framework than the perception of balance given by the traditional 4E model.

In addition, how many feats are there for let's say the fighter? How many powers? Certainly there are enough to last decades. Heaven forbid wizards should stretch their brains and create new class structures using the 4e blueprints. Classes that don't break the game or even separate themselves except because they're labeled 'essentials'.

I would really like to know what the reaction would be if these builds were presented in 'Martial Power 3'. I feel there'd be much much less resistance.

I was apprehensive about Essentials, but I also thought the Power splatbooks were coming a bit too quickly early in 4E's life cycle. I didn't really think that publication frequency for crunch was sustainable. I stopped buying splatbooks after the first (Arcane Power for me) and instead focused my buying on books that contained significant (to me) content that I couldn't get on DDI: DMG2, MM2/3 (monster lore), AV2 (vehicle and alchemy rules), Eberron PG (more alchemy), and both Dark Sun books.

Prerelease and shortly thereafter, I had a few problems with Essentials:

  • It added more support for the "standard" classes when what 4E really needs is more support for undersupported classes. Tried building a Runepriest lately? A Battlemind? Since WotC does not have infinite resources, oversupporting Fighters necessarily implies undersupporting something else, and that's exactly what happened.
  • Essentials builds are mostly incompatible with the other class builds. The Executioner's poisons are cool, but since they de facto replace daily powers, why not allow other Assassin builds to take them in place of a daily? Part of the appeal of 4E is the flexibility of individual classes when they receive sufficient crunch support; why hamstring that by releasing incompatible builds?
  • On that note, it's impossible to pick up an Essentials class feature by making a hybrid or multiclass character. So the Essentials builds aren't just incompatible with other builds of the same class, they're also incompatible with the rest of the classes.
  • The purist in me felt like Essentials added cruft to what I thought was the cleanest and most consistent ruleset D&D had seen. (Not the least complex, obviously.) The psionic power source was a great example of how to add interesting crunch while minimizing cruft; I felt the piecemeal approach of Essentials added too much cruft (namely, lots and lots of special rules for each build of each class) without adding enough interesting crunch. The sacrifice didn't seem worth it.
I'd hoped that some of these problems would be addressed. Thankfully, we're seeing a bit more content for undersupported classes via DDI. I remain hopeful that some Essentials options will be made available to non-Essentials characters, since that should be feasible to implement.

Also, when I read through the Essentials builds, some of my complaints turned out to be not quite as pronounced. The Thief, Knight, and Executioner all brought new and interesting things to the table and are builds I'd consider trying out. Probably not for a long campaign, since my characters are often hybrids (and sometimes multiclassed hybrids >_< ), but there's definitely some interesting crunch there that was worth bringing into the game.

So on the whole I'm neutral on Essentials now that it's out. I certainly like the idea of an updated set of evergreen books, and I bought the Rules Compendium and Monster Vault. I've been very happy with both, although I wish the MV contained some guidance on what information to reveal with skill checks alongside its expanded monster lore.

But we seem to have gotten into a "worst of both worlds" situation now. Content for both regular and Essentialized 4E is being drastically scaled back, but it looks like we also aren't getting more cool stuff in the historical 4E format (like the Dark Sun books). I'm hoping the content calendar will be updated with another couple of releases, although I don't think we need to get all the way back to the fast release schedule we saw in the first couple of years of 4E.
 

For those that you that are all for a purely digital D&D, I have a question for you. What do you have left when WotC decides to stop supplying it?

Lets say 5E comes out and WotC makes it only available on DDI. No physical books (less profit) and no PDF's (pirates). Maybe it's the "BEST" D&D that ever comes out. 3 years later, WotC releases 6E to go in a different direction. You like 5E more and want to stay with it.

Problem is...you don't own anything.

If it's all on their server and they stop hosting it...it's gone. 5E would never be played again because some tool in a suit told the tech guys to hit "delete".

I can go back and play D&D from 30 years back because I bought the books. Will you be able to say the same about future editions?
 

For those that you that are all for a purely digital D&D, I have a question for you. What do you have left when WotC decides to stop supplying it?

The last version they posted which multiple people screen-scraped into archive files that get illegally distributed forever.
 

I've heard guys in tech companies already talking about implantable devices being on the market within a couple of decades. Pipe dream? Perhaps. But this is the first time I can remember such thoughts being expressed outside of sci-fI books or interviews with scientists I've never heard of...


popular_mechanics_flying_car_cover.jpg
 

I've heard guys in tech companies already talking about implantable devices being on the market within a couple of decades. Pipe dream? Perhaps. But this is the first time I can remember such thoughts being expressed outside of sci-fI books or interviews with scientists I've never heard of...

Implantable devices are messy and run into all sorts of regulatory issues. LCD contact lenses communicating wirelessly (or skin conductively) with the "phone" in your pocket which in turn runs on either a voice interface or a gesture-based one that talks to the glove(s) you're wearing (or heck, just use the lenses for eye-gesture-control)—that's only slightly beyond what we can do now, and doesn't depend on any magic breakthroughs, so it'll happen. I'd put it at ten, maybe twenty years out.
 

For those that you that are all for a purely digital D&D, I have a question for you. What do you have left when WotC decides to stop supplying it?

Lets say 5E comes out and WotC makes it only available on DDI. No physical books (less profit) and no PDF's (pirates). Maybe it's the "BEST" D&D that ever comes out. 3 years later, WotC releases 6E to go in a different direction. You like 5E more and want to stay with it.

Problem is...you don't own anything.

If it's all on their server and they stop hosting it...it's gone. 5E would never be played again because some tool in a suit told the tech guys to hit "delete".

I can go back and play D&D from 30 years back because I bought the books. Will you be able to say the same about future editions?

Well, speaking personally... I most likely won't WANT to keep playing it. I play all different types of games and usually don't play the same game after more than a handful of campaigns so I have no need to still 'own' the material.

When 2E was released, I'd be hard-pressed to remember a 1E or BECMI game I ever played after that. When 3E was released, I never again played 2E. When I bought my 3.5 books, the 3E books went unused after that. When 4E was released, it had been a couple years since I played 3.5. And by the time 5E comes out... my current campaigns will probably have ended and I'd be on to playing something else (like Burning Wheel, or Feng Shui).

Granted, I know I'm not the norm... but I couldn't care less about 'owning' things past their usefulness. That's because I've had to move several times in my 38 years, and during each pack... FOOMP! My 1E books got tossed in the trash. Then FOOMP... there went my 2E books. My 3E books? Gone too. Still own my 3.5 books, but that's only because I currently own a house and don't plan on moving again. Of course, I also have no intention of ever playing 3.5 again (excepting maybe at cons) so I could easily toss them out for all the good they are going to do me... so when the time comes, my 4E books will be nothing more than paperweights as well.
 

Well, speaking personally... I most likely won't WANT to keep playing it. I play all different types of games and usually don't play the same game after more than a handful of campaigns so I have no need to still 'own' the material.

When 2E was released, I'd be hard-pressed to remember a 1E or BECMI game I ever played after that. When 3E was released, I never again played 2E. When I bought my 3.5 books, the 3E books went unused after that. When 4E was released, it had been a couple years since I played 3.5. And by the time 5E comes out... my current campaigns will probably have ended and I'd be on to playing something else (like Burning Wheel, or Feng Shui).

Granted, I know I'm not the norm... but I couldn't care less about 'owning' things past their usefulness. That's because I've had to move several times in my 38 years, and during each pack... FOOMP! My 1E books got tossed in the trash. Then FOOMP... there went my 2E books. My 3E books? Gone too. Still own my 3.5 books, but that's only because I currently own a house and don't plan on moving again. Of course, I also have no intention of ever playing 3.5 again (excepting maybe at cons) so I could easily toss them out for all the good they are going to do me... so when the time comes, my 4E books will be nothing more than paperweights as well.
You seriously just tossed that stuff out? In the trash?

I mean, even in good condition, I know they don't get top dollar on ebay, so well-used will be nigh unsalable, but I mean... I just can't imagine doing that.

Give them to a young relative to learn with. See if a FLGS would put them in their used books for sale pile. Give them to a second hand store. Give them to some educational institution. Hell, even recycle them.

I understand moving, as I've done it many times in my life, but the trash? That's harsh.

Don't take this rant personally; it's not intended as such. It's mostly rhetorical venting.
 


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