Ampersand: Sneak Attack

[hong]

It is an enabler of min-max and provides opportunity. A common strategy to encourage a behaviour is to make it easier.

And a common strategy to manage behaviour with potential negative consequences is communication. I find I get a lot of mileage out of saying to players "build whatever you want, but please don't go overboard or get into an arms race mentality".

This is character building, not gaming. How many fighters have ever decided that they wanted to max STR, good CON then DEX, bit of WIS for a will save bonus, dump CHA and INT. Every stat comes out with an even number so there are no odd points wasted.

Um, you know, there is a lot more to character building nowadays than just allocating stat points.

Nah, you is just some random dude on the intaweb.

That's true, but I am also a statistician who has used quasi-Newton algorithms to solve complex optimisation problems of several variables.

 

[Thaumaturge]

That's true, but I am also a statistician who has used quasi-Newton algorithms to solve complex optimisation problems of several variables.

Yeah, well... you use the queen's English. ugh.

Thaumaturge.

 

[devoblue]

And a common strategy to manage behaviour with potential negative consequences is communication. I find I get a lot of mileage out of saying to players "build whatever you want, but please don't go overboard or get into an arms race mentality".

Doh! I let you play the common sense card before I did. You win.

Um, you know, there is a lot more to character building nowadays than just allocating stat points.

Yeah but in 3e thats as far as I get before it is too hard.

That's true, but I am also a statistician who has used quasi-Newton algorithms to solve complex optimisation problems of several variables.

95% of all statisticians are made up.

 

[Steely Dan]

get into an arms race mentality".

That was my problem with 3rd Ed in a nutshell – a potential arms race between the players and the DM.


'Oh, yeah, well if you take that spell/PrC etc, I'm going to blah blah…'

 

[hong]

95% of all statisticians are made up.

Hey! I do not wear makeup!

 

[devoblue]

Hey! I do not wear makeup!

Damn! Here I was imaging some cute 19 year old with blonde hair and big boobies, just like most people pretending to be D&D nerds on the intaweb.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Or even better, a Spell Caster who is 24th level and only 13 years old, lives in his own apartment and has a girlfriend (who looks like she's 19) who happens to have cat ears and a cat tail.

I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Lizard]

A sneak attack is a pinpoint blow that takes advantage of your enemy's tactical weakness to hit them where it counts. Why should this be easy to do with a 50-pound, 5-foot-long hunk of iron?

Because you can hit an awful lot of vital points at once?

Rogue 1:"Didja see how I shanked that guy in the spleen with my dagger?"
Rogue 2:"Didja see how I shanked that guy in the spleen, liver, kidneys, lung, heart, and eyeballs with my greatsword?"

I'm going to 3e grognard hell for this, but I think SA with smaller weapons only is more thematically correct and breaks verisimilitude LESS for me. As long as a rogue can wield a greatsword via a feat or 'fighter training', not a problem. I have no problem with Tuffy McStabsyou, Guild Enforcer, shanking an unsuspecting guard with his shortsword (SA damage), then, when the other guard sees him (Tuffy lacks Combat Advantage now), drawing his Sword Of Mighty Hacking (+1 Greatsword) and going at the guard mano-a-mano, using some of his rogue tricks to confound his foe.

Build flexibility comes from many places. It's not a problem to me if a 'pure rogue' can't meet every possible archetype of every character ever called a 'rogue', provided you can build an *effective* character via feat choices or multiclassing. It's like complaining that, for example, a wizard who takes 20 levels of wizard but spends feats on martial weapon prof, armor prof, and weapon focus is an utterly useless 'swordmage', when you could just take a level or two of fighter and then take a 'swordmage' PrC.

I am more concerned by the promise of 'role efficiency' and multiclassing. If you can multiclass across roles (Striker/Defender), it seems you'll HAVE to sacrifice some level of role ability in favor of flexibility, and that goes against the stated design goal of "No one will ever be bad, or even just mediocre, at their role, EVER". OTOH, if you can be 90% as good as a 'pure' Striker or Defender while multiclassing, it makes multiclassing way too attractive. 3e ultimately solved most multiclassing problems by eliminating frontloading or creating PrCs which were optimzed for 'class a+class b', even to the point of making a Paladin/rogue PrC.

 

[Lizard]

S'funny, I remember that Evasion actually did just that in the 3E playtests: if you made your save, you got shunted outside the AoE and took no damage. They ditched it because of playtesters calling down fireballs on themselves so as to escape hairy situations.

And you don't think all these 'move target X squares' abilities won't be used by PCs on each others?

"Hey, Fingers! Pretend like you're going to attack me!"
"Sure thing, boss!"
"Oh-gee-where-did-that-sneaky-thief-go? I-seem-to-have-charged-him-and-run-20-feet, despite-my-using-up-all-my-movement-for-this-round! Good thing I ended up right next to the orc who was attacking the wizard, eh? And, oh look, now it's my initiative! I attack the orc with one of my 'you cannot move before making this attack' powers!"

 

[hong]

And you don't think all these 'move target X squares' abilities won't be used by PCs on each others?

"Hey, Fingers! Pretend like you're going to attack me!"
"Sure thing, boss!"
"Oh-gee-where-did-that-sneaky-thief-go? I-seem-to-have-charged-him-and-run-20-feet, despite-my-using-up-all-my-movement-for-this-round! Good thing I ended up right next to the orc who was attacking the wizard, eh? And, oh look, now it's my initiative! I attack the orc with one of my 'you cannot move before making this attack' powers!"

Did I complain or something?

But in any case, if the DM cannot tell who has the green circles around their feet and who has the red circles, that is a bad DM.