An end to scry-buff-teleport?

[Baby Samurai]

I'm hoping Epic 4E isn't as gonzo as Epic 3E.

Yeah, making Escape Artist checks to get through walls of force, and Balance checks to kick back on clouds…

 

[Uzzy]

I just prevented PC's teleporting to areas they hadn't been before (with the exception of large cities, which had Teleportation 'Nodes' set up outside the walls, allowing mages to Teleport there). Add in a few clever uses of defensive magics, such as False Image, and you can cut out such simple tactics.

That way, you can play your BBEG as clever villians, while not removing access to quite useful spells for the PC's. If they come up with something that outsmarts the BBEG, then good for them!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You realise Epic level is 1/3rd of the game right? If Epic in 4E is the equivalent of Epic 3E then I think I'll pass on level 21-30. That would be a shame. I

How much of the upper levels of 3rd edition did you use? How much of AD&D?
How many Shadowrun characters reached (if you ever played it) beyond 200 or more karma point?

The question is - what's the point of high levels if the feeling never really changes? A 15th level character is a real badass and might have his share of caravan guarding, wilderness travel, fortress storming and murder mysteries? How can you add more, without repeating yourself. How do you keep it interesting to continue playing the same character? If you don't neccessarily want it (for various reasons, one of them because you don't like the changes high level play brings to you), you start a new campaign. If you like, it you can continue advancing and are guaranteed a few new twists.

'm hoping Epic 4E isn't as gonzo as Epic 3E.

I certainly hope it works better at providing a sensible set of rules that is still well-balanced, and still offers enough ideas to build an adventure (and a setting that can contain such an adventure) around it. I never played the Epic Level rules for 3rd edition, but I did not like what I saw. And I also couldn't see myself playing it to level 30 in a regular play...

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I think there shouldn't be only magical "antidotes" to spells. There should be more or less natural limitations that anybody could use (at least if he is spending some money).

Massive amounts of iron or lead in the walls block scrying.
Impossible to teleport into a private home/building without the consent of the owner.
A circle of mithral redirects any nearby teleportation effect to it (but also helps for targeting the circle itself)

A magician should be (very) helpful in countering such magic, but he shouldn't be the only option.

Totally agree... I'd like to see some of the "folk" remedies like in the series "Supernatural".

1) A salt line along the doorways and windows prevents ghosts and possessing entities from entering a dwelling.
2) An iron pentegram can imprison extra-planar creatures (I loved the use of railroad tracks to contain the gateway to hell... shows how something could be created on a large scale).

 

[Nebulous]

I certainly hope it works better at providing a sensible set of rules that is still well-balanced, and still offers enough ideas to build an adventure (and a setting that can contain such an adventure) around it. I never played the Epic Level rules for 3rd edition, but I did not like what I saw. And I also couldn't see myself playing it to level 30 in a regular play...

I didn't play it either, even though i was gullible enough to buy the book. After a read through, i pretty much despised it. Not at all what i wanted (or expected) out of god-like adventuring. It was just the same ol' crap with bigger numbers. Oh, joy.

Epic level play i feel can use a book unto itself, but it should be a campaign supplement/ adventure.

 

[Wormwood]

Exactly, I'm through having arms races with players.

Well put.

 

[humble minion]

Buff-scry-teleport is going to be a tough tactic to kill.

Agree that it can short-circuit a lot of fun stuff, and that it leads to all sorts of setting issues that can be problematic, but simply put, in the absence of any relatively simple defense, it's a common-sense tactic for a PC to use. And getting rid of it is harder than you'd think.

Getting rid of the 'scry' bit really stomps on divination, as well as dumping one of the classic fantasy tropes that's been in everything from from the Palantir in LotR to crystal balls in Disney movies. Getting rid of, or nerfing the 'teleport' phase would be hard to do - you do want there to be some instantaneous magical transportation available.

The 'buff' phase is the most likely to be cut down. I don't think that anyone likes doing all the maths that layered buff spells involve in 3e, and it seems the prevailing wisdom at WotC is that casters can't possibly be having fun unless they're making something go boom every round. But removing ALL buff spells and effects from the game is obvious overkill,and in any case, a similar effect (concentrated surprise assault on scattered opponent who is not prepared for combat) can be attained without any buff spells at all by timing your scry-teleport attack for when your target is asleep or idly perusing his spellbook with his robe around his ankles in Castle BlackStormBlood's privy.

Simply saying 'get rid of b-s-t' is easy. Making it happen from a rule perspective without mutilating too many other things is harder. It's simply a very logical tactic for smart individuals to use in a world when scrying, teleporting, and buff magic is a reality. Perhaps an automatic round of dazedness or stun after a teleport?

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

It's not that tough - reduce the buffing (3.5 already largely did this); extend the casting time on teleport to 10 minutes or an hour - by the time you finish the spell, your target may have moved. Make anti-teleport spells easy and cheap to cast, make it easier to protect a domicile from scrying.

 

[heirodule]

There will be a new spell

Scrybufport.



Or replace teleport with shadow walk. More flavorful.

 

[lukelightning]

One solution is to stop relying on the BBEG trope.