An end to scry-buff-teleport?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

One solution is to stop relying on the BBEG trope.

Doesn't change that much.
Any kind of enemy is vulnerable to Scry-Buff-Teleport (including the PCs). If you put in opposition that has a change to beat the PCs, Scry-Buff-Teleport remains the best tactic, even if it is not automatically an "circumvent the plot leading to the BBEG" tactic now.

Besides, there will always be areas that are more important to the enemy, as well as people who are more important for the enemies plans than others. There might be a small subset of adventures and plots that don't require them, but do you want to limit yourself to just them?

 

[Aust Diamondew]

It's not that tough - reduce the buffing (3.5 already largely did this); extend the casting time on teleport to 10 minutes or an hour - by the time you finish the spell, your target may have moved. Make anti-teleport spells easy and cheap to cast, make it easier to protect a domicile from scrying.

I think your suggestions to the teleport spell are the best idea, increased casting time, and possibly some sort of indication in the area you are about to teleport to that someone is teleporting in (perhaps the air becomes filled with static for 1 minute before you are about to arrive, there is a loud noice or a strong smell in the air).

 

[RangerWickett]

LukeLightning, some solutions aren't worth taking.

Make teleportation harder to do. You can teleport short distances at heroic level. At paragon level you can travel to some place distant if you have the proper ritual, or have an item with a specific magical link to it, but teleporting should be momentous, and getting the necessary components to perform the spell would be an adventure in itself. At epic level, though, sure, you can go zipping around the multiverse, planeshopping in an instant.

Of course, the bad guys have powers to disrupt teleportation. Try to jump into the bad guy's lair, and you'll end up shunted to hell, or in a planar trap.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

One solution is to stop relying on the BBEG trope.

One thing that occours to me is to cease the idea that killing the leader of a group automatically destroys the whole group.

How about an Orc Horde with a group in charge? How about the BBEG has clones ready? Or the organisers of the conspiracy never meet face-to-face, but run events from several different cities. Killing one will only make the others more paranoid, and the internal promotions will throw up a replacement within a day or so. Much more interesting, surely.

 

[Henry]

It's never bothered be, because the players use it on the bad guys, the bad guys use it on them, etc. Eventually, they came up with solutions to the problem, and they know the bad guys use similar solutions. Occasionally a bad guy WILL be foiled by this trap, if he's a stupid type, and they feel good then they catch one with his pants down in this way. But to me, it's the same as an enemy that doesn't guard his spellcasters in a fight, or a dragon living in a one-room cave with his horde piled under him, or a bad guy who sends minions who know too much at the PCs - it's a combination of good and bad tactics that make life interesting for the PCs, and thereby the players.

I'll never forget the first time one of the gamers in the group found out how HARD it is to totally guard against scrying for a whole group of people or hideout, because other than forbiddance there aren't any real permanent solutions that don't cost an arm and a leg. He was quite happy when he used the trick on enemies to good effect. He also learned that transporting an artifact the size of a VW beetle from a remote jungle is really difficult, too. It gave him and the rest a challenge to overcome that they really enjoyed in the end.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

The only real problem in the Scry-Buff-Teleport tactic from a DM standpoint is that the Teleport spell is too powerful. As I suggested in another thread, if the spell took something like a full day to cast, left those who used it stunned or Nauseated for 10 minutes, and made a noise similar to a jet engine landing, it would not be as easy to abuse.

Even as it is right now, there are plenty of ways to get around the Teleport problem. First among them would be residing in a pocket dimension. I cannot recall, but I do not think Teleport or Scry can work across dimensions. Another would be to create a spell / magic item that redirects any teleport to a location of the owners choosing. Preferably inside an active volcano. Or just use your own contingency spell to trigger a spell to deal with either the Scrying or the Teleport. Darkness 15 feet radius, an Illusion to give false information. A teleport to trigger when someone teleports into your presence. Plenty of ways to handle it.

There is nothing wrong with taking the point of view of the Evil Overlord List. If something is a known issue, come up with some arbitrary ways to get around it.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[JDJblatherings]

My players tried "scry-buff-teleport' to raid a dead dragons treasure chamber, on the 40th level of the dungeon we were playing in, they were in the 10-12 level range. They scried...sure enough dead dragon, treasure still there, they buffed ,they telported...they had to deal with a ghost dragon on he 40th level of the dungeon. I couldn't imagine they let themeselves into that situation but they did becasue they thought they had fooled the game and the DM with the scry-buff-teleport scheme. Half of them survived.

They were much much more careful after that point about where and when they teleported.

 

[Mercule]

I just wish my players would occasionally use scry-buff-port. Even direct DM advice and NPCs doing it to them don't get them to do it.

I get complaints that a specialist can't ditch the divination school and buffs are cast only once or twice a level -- even in the teens. Occasionally they port near-blindly -- of course that ends poorly.

That said, I can sympathize that it shouldn't be quite as effective as it can be.

 

[lukelightning]

My players tried "scry-buff-teleport' to raid a dead dragons treasure chamber, on the 40th level of the dungeon we were playing in, they were in the 10-12 level range. They scried...sure enough dead dragon,

In 3e, RAW you can only scry on creatures.... dead things are objects, not creatures, so scrying on a dead dragon won't work.

Unless, of course, the dead dragon is really an undead dragon, which in my experience is normally what you encounter when you think it's just a dragon carcass.

 

[JDJblatherings]

In 3e, RAW you can only scry on creatures.... dead things are objects, not creatures, so scrying on a dead dragon won't work.

Unless, of course, the dead dragon is really an undead dragon, which in my experience is normally what you encounter when you think it's just a dragon carcass.

They could have been usign another spell that let them scout out the area. "Scrying" allows a save anyay so...the specific situation depends on the target blowing a save.

and yes the players let greed win out over experience and good sense. they were in a dungeon called "The Black Pit of the Dark Masters", they knew it was a meetign place, ritual center and lab space for a host of very powerful Necromancers, with more then one lich so they really weren't thinkign straight when they went for the treasure hoard of the "dead" dragon.