An Epic Game in Progress (my players avoid) New Request: 03/31/04

Well, nobody's ever claimed I'm the most original guy in the world. And with RotK recently out, I've got Lord of the Rings on my mind and with it one of my favourite bits from the book - the barrow-wights. So, behold the Barrow King! Bear in mind I'm by no means an expert on the history and cosmology of Greyhawk, so it more than likely I've mucked up various details here. Hopefully you can tweak it to fit canon if you decide it isn't too far out of sunc with your vision for the campaign, or the druidic council.

As long as anyone, even the most ancient treant, can remember, the Barrow King has always been on the Druidic Council. And he has always been called the Barrow King. But a king he is not.

When the Ur-Flan first learned magic and turned to the worship of dark beings, they were not the only humans to dwell in the Flanaess. Far out in the wilderness lived scattered remnants of a past age of men - pagan, animistic tribesmen, skinclad and tattooed, living off the land. They were strong in their own way, but when the armies and sorcerers of the Ur-Flan came to expand their empire, the tribes were not stong enough...

He who is now the Barrow King was the chief druid of his tribe, the diviner, weatherworker and spirit-talker. His were the births and funerals, the hunt ceremonies and initiations, the blessings and sacrifices. He had inherited his position from his mentor, who in turn had inherited the wisdom and power of his station through generations uncounted. In turn, as age caught up with him, he too would pass his duty to the earth and the spirits on to his acolyte, to continue the cycle. But this was not to be, for one day he returned from a short journey to a holy place to find his entire tribe slaughtered by the Ur-Flan.

Grieving bitterly, he performed his last obligation to his tribesmen - with hand and magic he raised great barrows, and laid the warriors and people of his tribe to rest for eternity, the shattered weapons of their enemies at their feet. From here his duty was clear - the Cycle must continue. But the Ur-Flan were everywhere, the tribes were dying and the remnants turning from the veneration of the spirits of the earth to the worship of gods. There was no successor to train. The Cycle had come to an end.

None now of the Druidic Council know whether the Barrow King chose his own fate, determined that even with the extinction of his way of life the ceremonies would be performed as usual, or whether it was thrust upon him by some artifact that, perhaps wrought by the eternal leshay, refused to let its wielder die. For although he died, he somehow lived on, hideous, hollow-eyed, withering and deathless. For uncounted years he has faithfully guarded the barrows of his kin, performing the correct ceremonies at the turning of the seasons, placating the spirits of the earth, and growing wiser in the ways of nature with every passing century.

The presence of the Barrow King on the Druidic Council would be undoubtedly questioned - druids not being known for their sympathy for the undead - were it not for two facts: firstly, he still, undeniably, wields the power of a druid in the favour of the Earth, and secondly, he has always been there - even the eldest elven druid remembers hearing the tales of the 'dead druid' in his initiate years, and tradition (and inertia) are powerful. For his part the Barrow King is a massive storehouse of experience and knowledge of the natural world, and many of the council have sought his input on a mystery or conundrum in the past. While deeply intimidating and somewhat alien to druids of the modern world, none doubt his wisdom.

The Barrow King is fundamentally very conservative. He holds to a grim survival-of-the-fittest philosophy that makes some younger, more idealistic druids a little queasy. The highest duty of a druid, he believes, is to act as an intermediary between the earth and its denizens, performing the ceremonies and giving counsel. Bolo, however, seems to spend his time gallivanting all over the multiverse picking fights with ludicrously powerful extraplanar beings. While he sympathises in principle, he cannot abide the neglect of ones congregation for such adventuring pastimes. Hence his challenge for the leadership - it's not use slaying dragons if you're not making sure the seeds will sprout, he will say. He is unimpressed by claims of impending doom - after all, he's lived through the Invoked Devastation, the Rain of Colourless Fire, and dozens of other cataclysms. Even through pain, the world will survive, like a blackened forest sending up fresh green shoots after a wildfire. Such is the Cycle.

I'm not going to stat him out here - though if you're interested in the concept then I'll be happy to have a go. I'd probably make him something like a human barbarian 1/druid 17 with Ravenloft's Ancient Dead template at rank 3 (or 4, at the outside). Probably drop the disease touch, give him a celestialesque Aura of Menace instead of Despair, and give him a couple of interesting salient powers, perhaps Passage{/i] and Animal Control - vermin swarms (a bit of a bending of the rules, but it's cooler that way). Deck him out like an ancient Celt with spear, leathers and bronze mask and crown, give him a wagonload of Knowledge skills and some feats to make use of his ludicrous Str, and there you go...

Regarding the actual contest, I'm not sure I can help you much. Perhaps make it in a perilous location (cliff edge, waterfall, cave complex, volcano) or in a massive wilderness arena to give an advantage to the contestant who uses the terrain best. And it goes without saying that anyone who damages trees and wildlife with random Flame Strikes and Ice Storms probably isn't the best candidate...
 
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WizarDru said:
What are some good reasons that the dieties are holding back? I have the vague notion that there is a set of laws/rules that only native gods to the Prime may remain there for any length of time and interact. Orcus is allowed on the prime for longer periods, as are all the demon princes....but the Interdiction of planar travel is gross violation of the unwritten rules. Clearly, the dieties are arguing over the hows, whys and wherefores....but does anyone have any more specific ideas?

The outer planes allow the gods to spread their power. When the gods act on the outer planes, they act on a metaphysical level, and thus affect everything at once. When they go to the prime, to act directly, they can only affect instances, rather than concepts: the prime is the plane of instances. In general, it is a more efficient use of a god's time to fix things on a metaphysical level. Only when an instance threatens to affect the entire system is the instance worth bothering with. Gods are the ultimate object-oriented programmers. They almost always manage to fix things in the base classes. ;)

In addition, the time spent dealing with the instance is time the other gods spent working at a more efficient level. The gods are involved in an elaborate game of "chicken" to try to get someone else (the other divinities) to fix the problem, or at least put in their share of the effort. Naturally, the good gods are willing to do their share, but they don't want to leave the evil gods unopposed while doing so. So they play a game of brinksmanship to convince the evil gods to help out.

The reason Prime gods interact on the Prime is that they are representations of specific things (i.e. this world, not the concept of "world" in general). Demons and such interact with the specific because they don't have the insight to interact with the universe on a more fundamental level. However, as agents of the gods (or in thwarting agents of the gods), they can affect the transcendental even if they don't understand it. Orcus and Fraz are on the border between the divine and the epic mortal: they are beginning to understand how to affect the transcendental and abstract, but they still haven't mastered it.

The injunction is unwritten because for the most part it's unneeded. Meddling at the Prime level is inefficient, and most would prefer not to go there. The problem is, there's a risk of an "arms race" of popping into the Prime, disrupting the assumptions of another God's transcendent activities, and popping out again. Soon gods are either spending all their time popping into the prime to oppose one another, and losing the benefits of the outer planes, or they give up on a specific world and all the worshipers who come with it (and, in the long term, have less souls to help in their "Great Work" on the Outer Planes).

. . . . . . . -- Eric
 

WizarDru said:
For that matter, other than having wildshape enter into the contest, what else can I do for such a series of contests besides a bunch of punch-outs?

Let's see... druids tend to have nature manipulating magics, summoning, and shape changing magics. Perhaps you could allow a "capture the flag" game?

Each contestant has a fixed amount of time to "hide" their flag in a specific geographical region. They can craft protections for it, set guardians, and whatever else. However, while the druids are free to interact directly with the flags, and even strive to harry or slow the other, they may not injure each other (including by proxy using summoned creatures). Grappling, entangling, etc. are all permitted, but no mind affecting spells, and nothing which renders the opponent unconscious or does damage. (This ensures that all contestants remain in the contest.)

This has a variety of advantages. It uses the nature lore of the druid and their tracking skills to find the object (determining what has been disturbed or is out of place). Pass without trace helps keep the flag hidden, and hiding it in a "natural" way will prevent magical detection. Finding specific plants / natural hazards gives some free protections, but knowing where to look for such places is a factor of Knowledge (nature). It encourages creative spell usage in both the hiding and seeking phases. Wild shape will likely be useful in both hiding the "flag" and getting to the opponent's. Summoned creatures will be useful for scouting, harrassing the opponent, and their special abilties more than their raw combat power. It encourages strategy and planning over direct confrontation (3 contestants -- getting bogged down in fighting one may let the other win). Transport magics can get one to the flag quickly... and ultimately, this is a race, which helps keep the pacing high. Healing magic and enhancement magic can both be used on the critters. Attack magic is restricted against the enemy druid, but blowing away the pesky allied creatures is fair game.

Is this more or less what you're looking for?

. . . . . . . -- Eric

PS -- The flag could be a giant acorn, or something similar. Something that won't stand out on a Commune with Nature (there will be plenty for that spell to keep track of anyway).

Also, if you want to keep the other players involved, perhaps they could play Argent's proxies: his animal companions and summoned creatures. You may wind up with some animal companions with very distinctive personalities after the game.
 
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humble minion said:
The Barrow King is fundamentally very conservative. He holds to a grim survival-of-the-fittest philosophy that makes some younger, more idealistic druids a little queasy. The highest duty of a druid, he believes, is to act as an intermediary between the earth and its denizens, performing the ceremonies and giving counsel. Bolo, however, seems to spend his time gallivanting all over the multiverse picking fights with ludicrously powerful extraplanar beings. While he sympathises in principle, he cannot abide the neglect of ones congregation for such adventuring pastimes. Hence his challenge for the leadership - it's not use slaying dragons if you're not making sure the seeds will sprout, he will say. He is unimpressed by claims of impending doom - after all, he's lived through the Invoked Devastation, the Rain of Colourless Fire, and dozens of other cataclysms. Even through pain, the world will survive, like a blackened forest sending up fresh green shoots after a wildfire. Such is the Cycle.
Ding! I'll need to tweak him just a tad, and I may or may not make him a conventional undead (leaning towards will...but with some twists), but he's perfect, conceptually. The image of this ancient druid sitting shivah (sp?) over the burial mounds of his fallen tribe members is awesome. Making him an ancient member of the council, most likely the one of the few surviving members of the original council, is perfect. His logic is perfect, as well. I want him as a antagonist, but not a villain...and he works perfect for that.


Psyke said:
The injunction is unwritten because for the most part it's unneeded. Meddling at the Prime level is inefficient, and most would prefer not to go there. The problem is, there's a risk of an "arms race" of popping into the Prime, disrupting the assumptions of another God's transcendent activities, and popping out again. Soon gods are either spending all their time popping into the prime to oppose one another, and losing the benefits of the outer planes, or they give up on a specific world and all the worshipers who come with it (and, in the long term, have less souls to help in their "Great Work" on the Outer Planes).
That matches where my thoughts were heading quite nicely. The idea that 'drilling down' is a less efficient use of their power is perfect. It allows for intervention, but reinforces the idea of using earthly agents and a 'hands-off' policy.

Let's see... druids tend to have nature manipulating magics, summoning, and shape changing magics. Perhaps you could allow a "capture the flag" game?
That's what I'm talking about! That works well. I want the contest to take advantage and require the druids to use their high-level abilities, and this makes much more sense than a duel, which would be counter-productive. I'll go a step further and say that instead of a 'capture the flag' game, it'll be more of a 'scavenger hunt', requiring 'commune with nature' and other spells to accomplish the tasks (such as locating the corrupted item that is poisoning the forest, and so forth). Points could be awarded or some sort of scoring system devised.

Bolo has already been cautioned by the First Ash that the only way to bring the druids truly together is as a Family, not a Council. Essentially, the old way of 'survival of the fittest' is not the way that the druids need to go forth. How literally Bolo has interpeted those words, I don't know. It'll be interesting to see what he does with it. :)
 

Pyske said:
Also, if you want to keep the other players involved, perhaps they could play Argent's proxies: his animal companions and summoned creatures. You may wind up with some animal companions with very distinctive personalities after the game.
Eric, you're just a font of good ideas today! I was just wondering how to run a session devoted to this without making it a solo session (although I don't mind running those, when needed)...but this is a much better solution. It'll require a little more prep-work, but I like it. :)
 

WizarDru said:
For that matter, other than having wildshape enter into the contest, what else can I do for such a series of contests besides a bunch of punch-outs?

If you're using 3.5E, Druids can now swap spells for Summon Nature's Ally spells. While you don't want it to become too much like a Pokemon duel ("Elder Earth Elemental, I choose you!"), a battle by proxy does have a certain appeal. It wouldn't depend on the magical items the Druids have, it's clearly not to the death, and there'd be strategy involved in picking your combatant.
(Besides, having the other Druids' Water Elementals run screaming from Bolo would be entertaining. He IS the boogeyman for them now, after all.)

You could also take advantage of the skill side of the Druid. They get some wilderness skills, plus those class abilities like Nature Sense and Trackless Step. Toss them naked into the wilderness, put a necklace on each that suppresses spells (including wildshaping?), then tell them it's a race to get to some destination. Not sure how you'd actually play that in-game, though, but at least it's gets away from the spellcaster side of the class.

But it does bring up the question, how WOULD a Druid organization pick a leader, if not Trial By Combat? As cliched as it may be, it really is one of the more sensible options.
 

How great is your capacity for being a bastard...

WizarDru said:
Eric, you're just a font of good ideas today! I was just wondering how to run a session devoted to this without making it a solo session (although I don't mind running those, when needed)...but this is a much better solution. It'll require a little more prep-work, but I like it. :)


If you dont want to run this as a solo session (assuming you mena a single session that exists somewhat apart from the overarching narrative, and not a one on one session with only one player), and dont mind your players chasing you out of the building, you could try something really mean.

Rather then just simply having your players run the summoned animal proxies, you could have this barrow king forcibly re-incarnate the lot of them as woodland animals, albeit Dire, Templated, much stronger then normal, animals. This could be done with the simple DM expediant of decree. The Barrow king is so in touch wiht the basic forces of life and death, and existance that he can arbitrarily decide for the players to exist in a previous incarnation for the duration of that challange. Be sure to choose ironic incarnations for at least one players. Being a Weasal, Vulture, or Rat for a while could be intresting.

Also, keep in mind that just because the players have to run off on a side quest for this leadership challenge does not mean that the villians are going to keep well away from it. You could have the villians show up and attack the heroes in the middle of these trials. The players then get to try to convince this barrow king to restore them while the barrow king says "Yes yes, I understand that your concerned about the impending end of the world, and must oppose these villians, but this is also important. I wont restore you until you find those 3 golden acorns. And if those planar bastards get in your way, well, deal with it."

I also like the analogy of the gods acting at the "meta physical base class level and the prime material being a world of instances". Being a programmer, I actually understand the analogy quite well. If we stretch that analogy further, I have some further ideas to explain the gods hesitance.

If the gods act at the metaphysical level, then Fraz can be likened to a process executing on a remote machine with root access to the system. He might not be able to execute the higher system functions, but he can certantly perform the basic commands. While he cannot execute a .exe file, he can run the basic apps and functions ("Kill Process, Reboot, Erase, the C Standard Library functions, etc).

If the gods try to kick Fraz out of their universe, Fraz can arrange for the system to crash, and the Gods are not sure they can recover the system if that happens. And all the while, Fraz is stealing the data off of the hard drive and copying it to the system he was launched from over the network (aka Far Realm).

If the gods reboot the system, they will lose all their current progress, and have to restart. Ever have a game of NwN crash after not saving for a few hours? Same thing. It wont kill you, but it will piss you off.

END COMMUNICATION
 

Lord Zardoz said:
If the gods try to kick Fraz out of their universe, Fraz can arrange for the system to crash, and the Gods are not sure they can recover the system if that happens. And all the while, Fraz is stealing the data off of the hard drive and copying it to the system he was launched from over the network (aka Far Realm).

If the gods reboot the system, they will lose all their current progress, and have to restart. Ever have a game of NwN crash after not saving for a few hours? Same thing. It wont kill you, but it will piss you off.

END COMMUNICATION
Interesting. I actually followed that. :)

This introduces the idea of Olidimarra as a hacker of the system. He has root level access, and likes to launch rogue processes. Clearly, he knows something important about the systems that no one else knows, or else the other superusers would shut him down.

Perhaps Olidimarra is the only god who truly understands Chaos, and it's necessary to keep the Primals under control? I'm still wrestling with that one.
 

WizarDru said:
Interesting. I actually followed that. :)

Doubly so, because it confused me. But I'm probably just getting too into the analogy.

Perhaps Olidimarra is the only god who truly understands Chaos, and it's necessary to keep the Primals under control? I'm still wrestling with that one.

Olidamarra and Fraz are clearly kindred spirits. Perhaps they fill the same roles, and Fraz is Oli's equivalent from the Far Realm? This would explain Oli's particular insight into Fraz's plots... they just think the same way. Oli is meddling because he doesn't want to be usurped by his (darker) sibling.

Alternately (or additionally), perhaps it's a game between the two. That could be the "rules" that Oli's so concerned about violating, as opposed to the rule about meddling on the Prime.

. . . . . . . -- Eric
 

WizarDru said:
Perhaps Olidimarra is the only god who truly understands Chaos, and it's necessary to keep the Primals under control? I'm still wrestling with that one.

More thoughts:

+ Why the primals?

Because sending them to the Far Realm could reinforce the failing reality of the realm. They are so "primal" that their presence would help keep things from diverging further into multi-dimensional, non-euclidian, Lovecraftian space. Basically, they are to serve as examples of what a 3-D being should be, so that Fraz can use them in the repair of the Far Realm. They are so powerful and primal that they would not be massively changed by the reality there, unlike most other creatures / spirits / concepts.

+ Why won't the gods talk to the Meepites?

Because they can't lie to the Meepites. The reason Fraz and Oli are so well informed that that they are gods of lies. (Fraz moreso than Oli, but his power is diminished by not being in the Far Realm.) Whenever a mortal hears a lie, Oli and Fraz know the lie. Given their cleverness, they can often deduce what the truth is. This includes lies by omission. The gods are still trying to keep their plans secret from Fraz, but since their most natural form of communication in person would be divine revelation, which imparts everything one needs to know about the topic at hand, communicating anything less would be a lie by omission.

(Note that this also gives a good excuse for letting Commune and such continue to function. With those spells, the limits of information passed are caused by the limitations of the spell, and not any intentional omission on the god's part. The spell probably even works at a subconscious level, which would explain why it doesn't provide better answers: the god doesn't actually think consciously about what the PC means, the spell just retrieves the answer to the PCs question from the divine subconscious. The gods are too busy thinking about abstract stuff to think consciously about individual instances... after all, there are billions of instances.)

. . . . . . . -- Eric
 

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