An Epic Setting

Drowbane said:
Which sounds awesome! But I'd still file this under "Planar Adventuring". Epic PCs playing World-Police to the various Primes and occasionally taking a vacation in the Fourth Hell as a Spa-resort. :p

Epic Fighter to passing Pit Fiend: Garcon!! More lava, I'm getting a bit chilled. Oh, and send up some more Baatoran Firewine. Ahh, much better... now, begone!

You know, I could see the devils actually doing that.

And that's a very, very scary concept, if you think about it for a minute... :D

I'm interested in what you're proposing, but I've never dealt with PDFs...

Well, maybe now is the time... ;)
 

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Take my view with a grain of salt, but....

It sounds...well....dull. And decidedly non-epic.

I can have trade consortiums hire adventurers to guard cargo/explore terrain/open up vistas/resist the organization, etc. from first level on.

To a certain extent, it's like my biggest problem with the MMORPG World of Warcraft. At 1st level you collect orc ears. At 75th level you collect EPIC orc ears. It's the same thing with a higher attack bonus, maybe some more varied tactics...

This sounds like a standard trade consortium campaign given a can of planar Mountain Dew to make it more XTREME.

It would work and make sense, but if the only reason I'm slaying demon lords and godlings and a pack of paragon terrasques is to make some rich NPC more money (or stop him from earning it), it doesn't feel much like *I'm* a high-level character.

Epic campaigns can work, but think more like EXALTED or as if Zeus and Odin literally walked the earth and you could play as them. That feels important, feels big, feels EPIC. It's not a normal adventure with a higher BAB, you're in a new category, now, baby.
 

Kamikaze Midget said:
It would work and make sense, but if the only reason I'm slaying demon lords and godlings and a pack of paragon terrasques is to make some rich NPC more money (or stop him from earning it), it doesn't feel much like *I'm* a high-level character.

These are good points. I believe that part of the solution to this problem lies in the presentation.

The PCs should never be allowed to forget that their actions affect the lives of tens of millions of people - the inhabitants of entire worlds - on a regular basis. Contact with the Consortium almost invariably represents the near-total disruption of the culture and way of life of entire civilizations (which may or may not be a good thing, depending on the civilization in question). Making sure that the PCs visiti each world at least twice - once before the Consortium has had an impact, and once afterwards - will show them just how much they have changed things. This way, adventures in each particular world will become more than just notches in their swords.

Besides, adventures involving the Consortium, though usually ultimately connected to crass commerce in some way, should always be grand and have a huge impact. How about retrieving the Holy Grail for the Round Table so that you can convince them to open up Britain for trade? Or how about destroying the avatar of Set atop of his main temple in front of a huge congregation to convince them that the Consortium is more powerful than him? How about creating an armada of flying ships that can cruise through a supposedly impenetrable storm to open up new trade routes? Enemies, scenery, challenges - they should all be more grander than in conventional campaign, and it is one of the premier tasks of the DM to convey that.
 
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These are good points. I believe that part of the solution to this problem lies in the presentation.

I'd agree, I think.

The PCs should never be allowed to forget that their actions affect the lives of tens of millions of people - the inhabitants of entire worlds - on a regular basis. Contact with the Consortium almost invariably represents the near-total disruption of the culture and way of life of entire civilizations (which may or may not be a good thing, depending on the civilization in question). Making sure that the PCs visiti each world at least twice - once before the Consortium has had an impact, and once afterwards - will show them just how much they have changed things. This way, adventures in each particular world will become more than just notches in their swords.

Not bad, but, again, I'm not sure how this would be different than a 1st-level adventurer going to subdue some orcs so that the Consortium could get through. Or even if he had to sail accross an ocean to subdue those orcs. The thing is, it kind of feels like it's the Consortium that has an impact, rather than the characters directly. While that's not a big problem for lower levels, it's a real issue when you're epic. Change is natural when presented with such an imposing force, but the PC's are merely heralds of that change, rather than being the cause of the change itself. The PC's should be the imposing force, I think.

And it might just be a different philosophy on what "epic" should be. Gods know I'm vague enough on what I think it should be. :)

Besides, adventures involving the Consortium, though usually ultimately connected to crass commerce in some way, should always be grand and have a huge impact. How about retrieving the Holy Grail for the Round Table so that you can convince them to open up Britain for trade? Or how about destroying the avatar of Set atop of his main temple in front of a huge congregation to convince them that the Consortium is more powerful than him? How about creating an armada of flying ships that can cruise through a supposedly impenetrable storm to open up new trade routes? Enemies, scenery, challenges - they should all be more grander than in conventional campaign, and it is one of the premier tasks of the DM to convey that.

I think that's part of the dillema, though. "Grander than in a conventional campaign," but still achievable in a conventional campaign (just through nations or continents rather than planes and worlds). Questing for the Holy Grail is just questing for the XTREME MCGUFFIN! Destroying the Avatar of Set is just destroying the High Priest of Set TO THE MAXXX! The armada of flying ships is not significantly different from creating a crack team of warriors to cruise through the impenetrable Orc Forest.

Rather than being a continuation of regular D&D adventures, I guess I kind of instinctively feel that an epic setting should deal with things that 1st level adventurers absolutely cannot in ways other than their low HP and BAB. If you can reduce it's scale to below-epic-level, there's no real motive for it to be epic.

Like, rather than working for or against the Consortium when facing down the Avatar of Set, the PC's should be facing down the Avatar of Set in order to transform the desolate wasteland of an entire decimated planet into lush, green fields for the poverty-stricken locals. Or should be seeking the Holy Grail to seal away the influence of Satan on the empire for at least 1,000 years. Or designing the flying armada to wage war on the Sky Itself and it's cruel dominion. Or somesuch. Somehow, working as agents for "Epic Trade Caravan" doesn't feel any more significant than working as agents for "Trade Caravan," because the accomplishments are of the same type (though written much larger).

It's kind of like, the difference between 1 and 21 shouldn't just be an order of magnitude, but an entire shift in the direction of the campaign.

Though maybe I'm asking WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much out of a 32 page pdf. :)
 

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