An exercise in critical thinking: can I have your opinion?

[Piratecat]

A friend sent me this prestige class, which one of his players developed. I suck at telling whether or not a PrC is well balanced. Could you guys please give me your opinions on this one? It's unusual... primarily defensive abilities, but some suspect ones. I'll appreciate your opinions as you hunt for problems.

Thanks!

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Philosopher King

"Noble, gracious, the friend of truth, justice, courage, temperance .
. . to men like him, when perfected by years and education, and to
these only you will entrust the State." Wise, benevolent, and
learned, the Philosopher King brings studied thought and philosophical
discipline to his role as a ruler and leader. The Philosopher King
need not be a sovereign ruler in his own right, but must be the legal
ruler and lord of inhabited lands. These lands may be inherited,
granted by a greater ruler, granted through an elective process,
established in the wilderness, or wrested from an evil or chaotic
lord.

Hit Die: d6.

Requirements
To qualify to become a Philosopher King, a character must fulfill all
the following criteria:

Alignment: Lawful Good
Diplomacy: 5 ranks
Minimum 10 ranks in at least 5 different Knowledge skills
Feats: Leadership
Special: Must be the legal lord of inhabited lands

Class Skills
The Philosopher King's class skills (and the key ability for each
skill) are Alchemy (Int), Bluff (Cha), Decipher Script (Int),
Diplomacy (Cha), Innuendo (Wis), Knowledge (all skills) (Int), Perform
(Oration) (Cha), Scry (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Speak Language.

Skill points at Each Level: 6 + Int Modifier


Lvl Att Frt Ref Wil Special and spells/day
1st 2nd 3rd 4th

1 +0 +2 +2 +2 Statecraft, Benevolence, Perspicacity
0 - - -
2 +1 +3 +3 +3 Stoicism, Inspirational Oratory
1 - - -
3 +1 +3 +3 +3 Prosperity 1d4 x 100 gp, Privy Council
1 0 - -
4 +2 +4 +4 +4 Preserve the Body Preserve the State
1 1 - -
5 +2 +4 +4 +4 Skepticism
1 1 0 -
6 +3 +5 +5 +5 Prosperity 2d4 x 100 gp
1 1 1 -
7 +3 +5 +5 +5 Solomon's Wisdom
2 1 1 0
8 +4 +6 +6 +6 Code of Laws
2 1 1 1
9 +4 +6 +6 +6 Prosperity 4d4 x 100 gp
2 2 1 1
10 +5 +7 +7 +7 Platonic Ideal
2 2 2 1

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the Philosopher King
prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Philosopher Kings gain
no proficiency in any weapon or armor.

Spells per Day: Beginning at 1st level, a Philosopher King gains
the ability to cast a small number of spells. Upon becoming a Philosopher
King, he must decide whether he will be an arcane or divine spellcaster.
If he chooses to be an arcane spellcaster: to cast a spell, the
Philosopher King must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the
spell's level; bonus spells are based on Intelligence, and saving throws
against these spells have a DC of 10 + spell level + Intelligence
modifier; the Philosopher King prepares and casts spells just as a wizard
does; like any other arcane spellcaster, a Philosopher King can cast
spells while wearing armor or using a shield but suffers a chance of
arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. If
he choses to be a divine spellcaster: to cast a spell, the Philosopher
King must have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the spell's level; bonus
spells are based on Wisdom, and saving throws against these spells have a
DC of 10 + spell level + Wisdom modifier; the Philosopher King prepares
and casts spells just as a cleric does (though a Philosopher King cannot
spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells). The Philosopher King's spell
list appears below.

Statecraft (Ex): The Philosopher King's knowledge of the world and
insight into human (and non-human) behavior aids him in negotiations.
Beginning at 1st level he adds his Intelligence and Wisdom bonuses to
Diplomacy skill checks.

Benevolence (Ex): The Philosopher King establishes a reputation
for wise and benevolent leadership. Each level of Philosopher king adds
an additional point to the Philosopher King's leadership score, on top of
the points gained for character level. For example, a character who is
5th level cleric and 3rd level Philosopher King with no charisma bonus or
other leadership modifiers would have a leadership score of 11 (8 for
character level plus 3 for each level of Philosopher King), while if he
had advanced solely as a cleric would have as an 8th level cleric a
leadership score of 8.

Perspicacity (Ex): At 1st level, a Philosopher King may gain
additional insight into the character of any creature (or thing) with whom
he converses. If he is able to converse with a target for at least one
round, he may detect his choice of Good, Evil, Chaos, or Law in the
target. In each subsequent round of conversation the Philosopher King may
detect an additional alignment characteristic. Both the Philosopher King
and the target must be able to speak, hear, and understand one another,
and the target must be engaged in conversation with the Philosopher King
(i.e. the Philosopher King may not detect Good, Evil, Chaos, or Law in a
target delivering a speech or conversing with others). This ability may
be used on things other than creatures only while under the effect of an
appropriate spell such as Speak with Plants, Stone Tell, etc. Since this
ability is non-magical, it is not subject to masking through Nondetection,
etc.

Stoicism (Ex): The Philosopher King 's studies and contemplation
support his ability to rule with a clear head. Beginning at 2nd level he
applies his Intelligence and Wisdom bonuses to all saving throws versus
Mind-Affecting spells or effects.

Inspirational Oratory (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, once per day
the Philosopher King may deliver a ten-minute-long speech to a group of
allies to inspire greater aptitude in certain endeavors. The speech
grants as many points of morale bonus as the Philosopher King has in
Charisma bonus to any of the following, with a maximum of +2 for any one
type: attack rolls; damage rolls; armor class; saving throws; skill,
ability, and special ability checks; move rate (+1 = +5' move rate). The
Philosopher King chooses how to divide up the morale bonus points, and
they apply equally to all listeners. For example, a Philosopher King with
a +3 charisma bonus may grant his allies a +2 to attack rolls and +1 to
AC, but he may not grant some of his allies a +2 to attack rolls and +1 to
AC while granting others a +2 to AC and +1 to skill/ability checks. The
Philosopher King may inspire no more allies than he has leadership score.
The morale bonuses last for 1 hour per 2 levels of Philosopher King. If
the 10-minute delivery of the Inspirational Oratory is interrupted in such
a way that prevents the Philosopher King from delivering the speech or
prevents his audience from listening, no bonuses are imparted and the
ability may not be attempted again until the next day.

Prosperity (Ex): The Philosopher King's wise rule grants great
prosperity to his subjects, which in turn (through a humane program of
tariffs and taxation) provides prosperity to the State. Each month after
all normal expenses of the state are covered and a generous amount is
provided to charitable causes, a surplus of money is available to the
Philosopher King for discretionary spending. At 3rd level the Philosopher
King gains 1d4 x 100 gp each month as income from his lands. At 6th level
the monthly discretionary fund increases to 2d4 X 100 gp, and at 9th level
the income increases to 4d4 x 100 gp. (These amounts should be adjusted
by the DM as appropriate to the campaign and the economic situation of the
Philosopher King's lands. The intent is that the Philosopher King should
be comfortably well off compared to kingdoms in similar economic
conditions. In campaign settings where nations are exorbitantly wealthy
(such as Louis XIV's France), these amounts might be increased by a factor
of ten or more, while the ruler of a remote border kingdom might be
wealthy with one-tenth of this income).

Privy Council (Su): While discussing confidential matters of
state, the Philosopher King must be able to converse with his allies and
councillors without fear of eavesdropping. Beginning at 3rd level, once
per day the Philosopher King may generate a 15-foot radius sphere centered
on himself preventing all magical eavesdropping (such as scry,
clairaudience/clairvoiance, use of a crystal ball, etc.). The Privy
Council lasts for ten minutes per level of Philosopher King, or until he
chooses to dismiss it. Note that the Privy Council does not protect
against non-magical eavesdropping or spying.

Preserve the Body Preserve the State (Ex): The prosperity and
well-being of the kingdom are dependent upon the continued health of the
Philosopher King; through meditation and study the wise ruler learns
control over his body to avoid untimely death. Beginning at 4th level,
the Philosopher King adds his Intelligence and Wisdom bonuses to all saves
versus poison as well as death effects such as an assassin's death attack
or the Slay Living or Implosion spells.

Skepticism (Su): "They will never intentionally receive into their
minds falsehood, which is their detestation, and they will love the
truth." Beginning at 5th level, the Philosopher King is immune to all
Mind-Affecting spells and effects. Note that while this means that
Philosopher King cannot be charmed, enchanted, or controlled by his
enemies, he also cannot be inspired or aided by his allies; he gains no
benefit from an allied Bard's Inspire Courage ability, nor can he be aided
by spells such as Bless or Aid.

Solomon's Wisdom (Ex): A wise leader can judge the words of
others. Beginning at 7th level, a Philosopher King may discern lies
spoken by any creature (or thing) with whom he converses. If he is able
to converse with a target for at least one round, he may discern lies
spoken by the target. Both the Philosopher King and the target must be
able to speak, hear, and understand one another, and the target must be
engaged in conversation with the Philosopher King (i.e. the Philosopher
King may not discern lies in a target delivering a speech or conversing
with others). This ability may be used on things other than creatures
only while under the effect of an appropriate spell such as Speak with
Plants, Stone Tell, etc. Since this ability is non-magical, it is not
subject to masking through Nondetection, etc.

Code of Laws (Sp): A ruler is the ultimate arbiter of justice
within his realm. Beginning at 8th level, the Philosopher King may invoke
Mark of Justice as per the spell upon his own legal subjects.

Platonic Ideal (Ex): At 10th level, the Philosopher King has
achieved the Platonic Ideal of wise rulership. His subjects are so
inspired by the eminence and renown of his rule that they gain the
Philosopher King's charisma bonus as a morale bonus on all trained skill
checks, so long as they are not acting against the good of the state.

Spell List
Philosopher Kings choose their spells from the following list: 1st
Level: Command, Calm Emotions, Comprehend Languages, Charm Person,
Remove Fear 2nd Level: Detect Thoughts, Emotion, Suggestion, Tongues,
Remove Paralysis
3rd Level: Charm Monster, Detect Scrying, Remove Curse, Status
4th Level: Break Enchantment, Mark of Justice, True Seeing

Ex-Philosopher Kings
A Philosopher King who ceases to be lawful good or who willfully
violates the confidence entrusted to him by his populace loses all
special abilities and spells gained as a Philosopher King, and may
never again progress in levels as a Philosopher King. A Philosopher
King who loses his lands nevertheless retains the love of his
followers and subjects. He retains all Philosopher King abilities
with the exception of Prosperity, and his loyal former subjects seek
to restore him to power, or to establish a new territory for his rule.
He may not advance in levels as a Philosopher King until a legal
lordship is established.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

First, I'd cut out the "Choose Arcane or Divine spellcasting". The PrC should specify one or the other. Personally, I'd go with divine.

Second, the "Add Int and Wis bonus" to skills and Save and such, is pretty tough. Pick one or the other... Can you Imagine the Paladin or Monk that takes this prestige class? Yowza.

Othe than that, I'd say it's a pretty cool NPC PrC. I can't see many players taking it, since it ties you to running a Kingdom, which precludes Adventuring.

 

[Fenris]

This is a minor quibble, but in the pre-reqs does 10 ranks in at least 5 different Knowledge skills mean a total of 10 ranks or ten ranks in each of 5 different skills? I was not sure on first read and on second read still wasn't sure. 10 points vs 50 is a big difference

 

[Zor]

This is a good idea for a PrC. There aren't many designed to function out of the dungeon-crawling environment (justifibly so, due to 3E's idea of returning to the dungeon.)

That being said, I'm going review this class for balance in a standard DnD campaign - standard money, standard magic, with a focus on how aspects of the class will affect dungeon crawling.

Requirements:

Alignment req. isn't a balance factor.

Needs 1 feat, Leadership, which on its own is a nice feat, and you would be a fool to not take Leadership if you wanted the most of this PrC. I like this requirement, since it doesn't feel like you are throwing away a feat (like having to take toughness or skill focus), and is just there to make sure you are already specializing in what the PrC is trying to do. Very good.

The special req. isn't a balance factor, and is something you want anyway if you take this PrC.

However, you do need 55(!) ranks in skills to become this. Minimum rank is 10, so targetted entry level is 8th. Which means the class is finished up when you are 18th level. This is important when looking at how powerful the given class features are.

Because of the large number of knowedge ranks required, this class is easiest to get from Wizard and Bard. For anyone else to take it at a reasonable level, you need a high int and the Educated feat. Because this class is focused on high-powered diplomacy, I would consider lowering the number of needed knowledge skills and replacing them with Bluff and Sense motive (10 each), which are essential skills for a landed noble.

Class features:

d6 hit die, wizard BAB, all saves good. I'd personally drop the good fort and reflex saves, because they don't make sense with this kind of class.

Lots of skills, and a skill list which reflects the type of stuff the PrC will be doing. Also, the munchkinable skills (spot, listen, tumble) are left out. Good stuff here too.

Spells:

I would suggest giving the class +1 levels of spellcasting progression at every even level. The two classes which this PrC are built for (Wiz and Bard) already have spells. Up to 4th level spells for Wiz and 3rd for Bard. This is my opinion, but it REALLY feels like a kick in the nuts to have to abandon spellcasting progression and start over in a new one. Also, getting continuing spellcasting progression, even if slowly, means the character will still be at least a little useful to a high level adventuring party. For an NPC oriented PrC, the existing spells would be fine, but for a player who plans on working with a party (and in the context of a standard DnD campaign) it needs something to do when the fights break out. Also note that almost every spell on the spell list is a spell already available to the PC if he came in as a Wizard. Considering the level of the character getting these spells, he would have an easier time just getting magic items for the spells he wants to cast alot.

Special Abilities:

Lots of this babies, and fairly spread out. There isn't any level where you don't get a new toy .

Statecraft: No problems, Diplomacy isn't exactly a super-powered skill. In any case, with +skill items being SO cheap, any skill related power just isn't a big deal.

Benevolence: Another good power. Cohort level is capped at (your level - 1) so no dangers of getting a super-cohort. This power just means that you have a LOT of low powered followers, which a landed noble is going to need in spades.

Percipacity: I would change the time to figure anything out to 1 minute. 6 seconds of talking to someone to find out their alignment seems to hard to swallow for an (Ex) power.

Stoicism: This the first "meaty" power of the PrC. A big bonus to a save, combined with naturally good will saves and probable entry from a class with good will saves make him nearly immune to mind affecting things at 9th character level. Its powerful, but so are things like 5th level spells, which a straight Wiz would have by now.

Inspirational Oratory: Good for helping out the fellow Party Members. Gets very powerful as the PC's charisma gets higher, however the PC now needs to have high Int, Wis, and Cha to make the best use of all his powers. I would swap the level of this power with Privy Council, just to spread out the combat-applicable powers a little bit.

Prosperity: Not very powerful, assuming the extra wealth is spent on his lands on not for his own personal use. Which shouldn't happen with the Lawful Good requirement.

Privy Council: Cool idea, and marginally applicable to adventuring. No problems here.

Preserve Body/State: Another powerful defensive ability, which comes in at 11th total level. But being defensive, its not too powerful. The PC is still vulnerable to being burned to a cinder (bad reflex) or hacked to bits (low hp). Straight spellcasters get 6th level spells here, and fighters get a 3rd attack. This doesn't seem too powerful compared to those.

Skepticism: Seems very powerful on paper, but considering the great will saves this character already has, going to immunity isn't very mighty. Especially considering the lack of ability to receive certain beneficial spells. I would try to clarify exactly what kinds of effects fail to work on the PC. Maybe make it so any morale and competence bonuses fail to affect the PC?

Solomon's Wisdom: 13th character level, which means 7th level spells for spellcasters. Using +1 spells at every even level, this character casts spells at 10th level of ability, which is only 5th level spells. Detecting any and all lies is very good for what this PrC is focused on, but doesn't help during fights one lick. Seems perfect to me.

Code of Laws: It wasn't clear, but even using this as many times per day as needed isn't game-breaking. LG characters shouldn't be doing any stupid things with this power.

Platonic Ideal: This is a really cool idea, and would greatly increase the ability of the PC's lands, which is fitting for an 18th level character getting the ultimate ability of a PrC focused on ruling.

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Final Thoughts: I don't see this class unbalancing in the slightest, and seems to me to be a good example of what a PrC should do: become very capable in one area and end up lackluster in everything else. The capable area of this PrC isn't even related to adventuring, which makes it hard to see as unbalancing. When adventuring, this character is either at mediocre spellcaster (+1 progression at even levels) or a terrible spellcaster (using the original spell chart).

-Zor

 

[Plane Sailing]

Initial thoughts on requirements:

Only Bard, Wizard and Priests with Knowledge domain have unrestricted access to Knowledge skills. They could possibly qualify after 7th level, other classes who have to cross-class will not be able to take any levels until they have reached 17th level, limiting them to only 3 levels of this class.

The Lawful good requirement knocks bards out of the running since they cannot be lawful!

Thus this looks like a prestige class for Wizards and Knowledge Priests. Is that really what is wanted?



Initial thoughts on skills:

Perform(Oration) ??? This is the Star Wars d20 way of handling Perform, and doesn't apply in standard D&D.

Initial thoughts on saves:

All good saves? No, I disagree here completely! I would have expected good Will, poor Fort and Refl saves. They are philosophers, not Monks who are honing their body to perfection!

Special Abilities:

Statecraft - I think adding Int AND Wis to diplomacy checks is too big. I'd suggest adding Int for Statecraft and later adding Wis too for Statesman (mimicing the difference between craft and profession skills)

Preserve the Body Preserve the State - what is with this "add both Int and Wis" to something? Again too powerful. Pick one and stick with it I'd say.

Spells:
Considering that entry into this class is basically for wizards and clerics, they are then giving up their future spell casting ability for a very minor ability to cast a select few spells. Not very appealing for them