An irritating thing about PDFs...

[Gez]

Well, people who download stuff from Kazaa will happifully use anything as an excuse. (Not that they are valid excuse, by the way. I've yet to see one who is a valid excuse. But they are excuse nonetheless, just invalid.)

 

[The Sigil]

Well, people who download stuff from Kazaa will happifully use anything as an excuse. (Not that they are valid excuse, by the way. I've yet to see one who is a valid excuse. But they are excuse nonetheless, just invalid.)

Here you go, Gez... I DO have a valid excuse for downloading certain things off of Kazaa... sort of (I guess it's not exactly an EXCUSE - see below)...

Specifically, I have thrice downloaded the Enchiridion of Mystic Music off of Kazaa - because I am curious to see what version is currently the most prevalent one being shared.

But then, I'm the copyright holder - and everyone has my permission to let me - and only me - download the Enchiridion from them.

Thus, it is legal for me to download the EoMM off of Kazaa, since I, as the copyright holder, can grant permission for the sharer to share with me and for myself to download it...

I run this check about once a week or so. And I'll let you know with a "please don't share this with others" message if I'm the one who just D/L'ed it from you.

There you go - a valid and legal reason/excuse for my Kazaa downloading habits.

--The Sigil

 

[maddman75]

How about this one - I downloaded a copy of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. I own it. It's sitting right next to me in fact. However I found it convienent to have a copy on the computer for when I'm making notes, and for printing out the NPC statblocks. Now I own a scanner - I could have just scanned in the statblocks myself (that was the main reason). But I figured I'd let some other goob rip the spine off his to get a good scan . That is most certainly fair use. If it would be fair use to photocopy the statblock section for use at a game I don't see what the difference is.

 

[nopantsyet]

Hurrah for cd-burners! My PDF collection has grown to about as many titles as my book collection which, while not the great library of Alexandria, is more than I could easily transport at once. So I just burn a CD of all my PDFs every couple of months. I've had to fall back on it once already, making me very happy at my preparedness.

But I'll second the other voices that recommended contacting the publisher. They've probably got records, but if you have your receipt email to forward them, all the better.

Ew. Kazaa. Yech.

 

[The Sigil]

How about this one - I downloaded a copy of Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. I own it. It's sitting right next to me in fact. However I found it convienent to have a copy on the computer for when I'm making notes, and for printing out the NPC statblocks. Now I own a scanner - I could have just scanned in the statblocks myself (that was the main reason). But I figured I'd let some other goob rip the spine off his to get a good scan . That is most certainly fair use. If it would be fair use to photocopy the statblock section for use at a game I don't see what the difference is.

Sorry, not "Fair Use." Why not? Because it was illegally distributed (there's the rub). The "goob" you downloaded it from did not have the permission of the copyright holder (WotC) to distribute it. "Fair Use" falls on the DISTRIBUTION side - in other words, the "goob" you downloaded it from would have to claim that his disemmination of the thing on Kazaa was done pursuant to the "Fair Use" doctrine. What you have is an "illegal copy" by definition.

Note: ethically and morally, I don't think you SHOULD have this illegality problem - if I own something in Format A, and, as copyright holders espouse, I am paying for (in essence) a License To Access The Content Of The Work, that should entitle me to access the content in any format I desire... and having paid them once, I am entitled to get free access (as in "Free Beer" and "Free Speech") to that content through any avenue and in any form I choose.

So, while morally and ethically I personally happen to think there's nothing wrong with what you did, from a strictly LEGAL standpoint ... well, what you have is an illegal copy. IMO, this should work in the same way as if you buy stolen goods even if you don't know they're stolen - when somebody finds out you have their stuff, you may not be prosecuted for theft if you can show you traded money for them in good faith... but you still don't get to keep the goods, either.

(Heck, morally and ethically, I'm not a fan of draconian copyright - defined by me as "copyright over 7 years in length" - to begin with, but that's another story for another thread)...

--The Sigil

 

[tarchon]

How many of you have had to rebuy PDFs? Today I was looking for a PDF I know I bought, and it doesn't seem to be on my hard drive or any of the CDs I burned. I did a clean-up of my hard drive not too long ago (it's my work computer, so I can't keep stuff like this around too long), and I fear I was a bonehead and deleted it. It's not that big of deal, since it was only $5-6 to begin with, but still, what a drag.

Did you clear out the recycle bin too?

 

[hrafnagud]

So, while morally and ethically I personally happen to think there's nothing wrong with what you did, from a strictly LEGAL standpoint ... well, what you have is an illegal copy.

This begs the question: Why observe a law with no moral implications, particularly when it is (largely) unenforcable anyway? Is someone handing out merit badges?

 

[Numion]

Well, people who download stuff from Kazaa will happifully use anything as an excuse. (Not that they are valid excuse, by the way. I've yet to see one who is a valid excuse. But they are excuse nonetheless, just invalid.)

Not quite. Where I live, it's legal to DL copyrighted material from the net. Sharing it is illegal, but DLing for own use is legal.

So I don't need excuses.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

This begs the question: Why observe a law with no moral implications, particularly when it is (largely) unenforcable anyway? Is someone handing out merit badges?

Because a fair number of people do think that stealing someone else's work does have moral implecations. I am one of them. And for the people who lose sales because of this there is a monetary reason as well. Ask Monte Cook how he feels about folks making pirated copies of his PDFs online.

The Auld Grump, who notes that the people who think that it is alright to steal other people's work are generally the same ones who do it...

 

[maddman75]

Because a fair number of people do think that stealing someone else's work does have moral implecations. I am one of them. And for the people who lose sales because of this there is a monetary reason as well. Ask Monte Cook how he feels about folks making pirated copies of his PDFs online.

The Auld Grump, who notes that the people who think that it is alright to steal other people's work are generally the same ones who do it...

I don't think you're getting where we're going here. We haven't been talking about downloading copies of stuff you have no business having. We are talking about downloading pdf copies of books you physically own for convienence. I mean I could scan in the books and convert them to .pdf. I even have the hardware and software to do that. So what is morally wrong about downloading a copy from someone else?

I haven't defrauded Monte at all - I paid $30 in the store for Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, and think it was worth every penny. Nor has he lost any sales. But by the letter of the law, I'm breaking it. A law with no chance of being caught and with no moral basis I do not feel compelled to obey.

And while we're at it, making copies is not stealing. Stealing implies that the original owner will be denied use of the item. Fraud would be a more appropriate word. Not saying it's right, just that 'downloading is just like stealing it from a game store!!11!' is incorrect and an overly emotive term.