An Obsolete Rogue

[GreatLemur]

I've got a simple variant that I call my "smalltown rogue" variant:
Remove Abilities:
-Trapfinding @ lvl1
-Trap Sense +1 @ every 3rd lvl
Add:
-Dodge @ lvl1
-Initiative +1 @ every 3rd lvl

That sounds very cool. An initiative bonus seems a bit more powerful than a save bonus against traps, but maybe that's just because I don't see a lot of use for traps in a campaign. I definitely like the idea of the Rogue being the quickest to react in a fight, so I'll have to remember this.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Speaking of traps, perhaps Sean Reynolds Variant on Fewer Absolutes is something you may want to look into...it uses a bonus/penalty to a skill instead of a flat 'you cant do that'.

He also addresses other issues like the Knock spell, racial spell immunities, and fire immunities.

I would suggest leaving the Rogue in as the skill-monkey character, altho you are correct that in a trap-less dungeon environment they do become a 5th wheel character.


Machiavelli, that small time variant just might make it into my game as well Thanks!

 

[Nyaricus]

Machiavelli, that small time variant just might make it into my game as well Thanks!

Thirded! Thanks

 

[Greg K]

I never liked the idea of having sneak attack or trapfinding/trap sense as the rogue class abilities. They should be options available for a player to choose as they don't fit all roguish concepts.

Now, despite my dislike for those roguish abilities, I would never get rid of the rogue. They along with the wilderness rogue variant from ua are the skill monkeys of my campaign world. Imo, what we need are alternatives to both sneak attack and trapfinding/trapsense to allow the class to fit more roguish archetypes. Thankfully, we have an alterantive to sneak attack with the martial rogue option from UA (which fits several rogue concepts). Now, we just need alternatives to trapfinding/trapsense and some more options to replace sneak attack.

 

[Greg K]

perhaps Sean Reynolds Variant on Fewer Absolutes is something you may want to look into...it uses a bonus/penalty to a skill instead of a flat 'you cant do that'.
He also addresses other issues like the Knock spell, racial spell immunities, and fire immunities.

I love that article (and I wish Sean would finally get around to finishing it). I had actually asked in my 3e questionaire for the designers to address both class/race immunities (can't recall if I suggested +5 or +10) and several spells that encroach on the rogue territory. So naturally, the article is part of my house rules.

 

[Nyaricus]

Now, we just need alternatives to trapfinding/trapsense and some more options to replace sneak attack.

The Scouts Skirmish ability is a good one

 

[Greg K]

Nah. I don't like Skirmish and the scout is not used at our gaming table.

edit: we use the wilderness rogue from UA and allow both the sneak attack and martial rogue options.

 

[lukelightning]

I play a rogue, and I am getting sick at how useless he is becoming at higher level.

People tout rogues as super skill monkeys, but in order to fulfill their mandated role they need to max search, disable device, and open lock. Without these skills maxed you might as well not even try looking for traps, and if you do find one don't dare touch it.

And of course you want to tumble and hide and move silently too, and maybe bluff, but face it, despite all your skill points you still don't have enough. Being mediocre in any of these skills is a waste of skill points.

 

[Infiniti2000]

For me, being a rogue is all about sneak attack and being a skill monkey.

Skill Monkey is a prestige class, I'll have you know.

 

[CRGreathouse]

People tout rogues as super skill monkeys, but in order to fulfill their mandated role they need to max search, disable device, and open lock. Without these skills maxed you might as well not even try looking for traps, and if you do find one don't dare touch it.

As a DM, I've had perhaps 20 rogues in my parties, and I'd be suprised if as many as half maxed out even two of these skills.