An Odd Situation

[steev42]

So, my group has been running around with the phylactery of a dracolich in their bag of holding for some time now, having no clue what it was. Last session, they killed a dragon, and as is their wont, chopped it up and tossed it in their bag of holding for later skinning. Going into the dragon's horde, they find it guarded by a couple of fire elementals. Brute holding the bag of holding decides to try to intimidate them by pulling the head of the dragon out and slamming it on the ground.

What would you do?

Personally, after some hemming and hawing, I ruled that the dracolich, being within 60 feet of the corpse of the dragon, possessed it, completely reformed it in the 2 hours or so that they rested before tackling the horde, and when he pulled out the recently slain dragon-head, got the whole thing. I'm just wondering what others would do.

 

[Tiberius]

Yep, that sounds about right. However, what's the gestation time, if you will, of a dracolich corpse? Standard liches reform in 1d10 days, but they need to reform from scratch, rather than just possess a body. Is the dracolich's regeneration substantially shorter?

OTOH, how big is this creature? If it exceeds the space or weight limitations of the bag of holding, the "bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever." For reference, the bags are rated for:

Type I: 250 lb. / 30 cu. ft.
Type II: 500 lb. / 70 cu. ft.
Type III: 1000 lb. / 150 cu. ft.
Type IV: 1500 lb. / 250 cu. ft.

IIRC, dracoliches are skeletal, so they would proabably be considerably lighter than a meat-dragon. Also, since they can fly, it might be reasonable to infer that dragon bones are hollow, though their legendary toughness does seem to disqualify this. Regardless, a Type I or II bag is probably insufficent to contain a reformed dracolich, and thus destroyed (and said lich "lost forever"; I might call that a fair trade in their place). A type III or IV bag might hold one, but it'd be pushing it.

 

[ajanders]

It's your game and your whacky dracolich...I don't recall possession and reformation out of a phylactery being possible. That said, the situation could be handled in all sorts of comical ways.

1. The dracolich's new, non-chopped up dragon body probably can't fit all the way out of the bag...it probably gets stuck around the shoulders.

"Hey fire elemental! Watch me pull a dragon's head out of my bag!"
*RRROOOARRR!!!!*
"I gotta get me a new bag."

2. The dracolich pops the reaching characters arm into its mouth and slurps hard...think spaghetti. With draconic strength, the reaching character probably gets ...squished...through the mouth of the bag and into the mouth of the dracolich.

"Hey fire elemental! Watch me pull a dragon's head out of my bag!"
*SCHHHHLLLLORRRRP*
"I gotta get me a new PC."

3. (Really, the most likely.) The character reaches in and finds a suffocated live dragon and a frustrated dracolich back in its phylactery. The dragon can be reformed with magic. It can be resurrected with magic. It can be possessed with magic. All that nets you is a live posessed dragon that suffocates in 10 minutes. And is stuck in a very cramped pocket dimension. If the dragolich is smart and lucky, maybe it thinks to plane shift out.

Whatever you want, at this point...

 

[Infiniti2000]

So, my group has been running around with the phylactery of a dracolich in their bag of holding for some time now, having no clue what it was. Last session, they killed a dragon, and as is their wont, chopped it up and tossed it in their bag of holding for later skinning.

Whoa, stop right there. Three things wrong this. (1) It would be extremely nontrivial to chop up a dragon. Did you just hand-wave this away? (2) Chopping it up would ruin it for purposes of skinning. I have no idea what good that would do. (3) Do you realize that dragons weigh a lot? I can't imagine the PCs going up against a dragon that would fit inside the bag if they can handle a dracolich.

Going into the dragon's horde, they find it guarded by a couple of fire elementals. Brute holding the bag of holding decides to try to intimidate them by pulling the head of the dragon out and slamming it on the ground.

What would you do?

Roll the Intimidate check. I might give a +2 circumstance bonus. Is this a trick question?

Personally, after some hemming and hawing, I ruled that the dracolich, being within 60 feet of the corpse of the dragon, possessed it, completely reformed it in the 2 hours or so that they rested before tackling the horde,...

Did you realize that it would actually be a proto-dracolich, should you in fact allow it at all? I don't understand how the remainder of the corpse can be reformed from the head. Did I miss something? Doesn't it require a corpse and that's it?

...and when he pulled out the recently slain dragon-head, got the whole thing.

Whoa again! If they had to chop up the dragon to put it into the bag, then how is it even remotely possible to pull it out whole? This makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Bad Paper]

I agree with everything I2k says.

While you can rule 0 anything, you should probably keep some internal logic around.

For example, the players have unwittingly:
1) trapped and transported the phylactery for some time now, preventing lichy from reforming
2) dismembered the only suitable new package for lichy, preventing lichy from reforming

I absolutely love the fact that they're doing all this without a friggin clue. If they knew what they were doing, they would probably be clamoring for XP.

But no, I would not allow:
1) trivial dismembering
2) somehow profiting from a dismembered corpse. any piece small enough to fit into a Bag is not going to be useful for armor. mayyybe a dragonfang weapon.
3) possessing corpse pieces. there is no corpse to possess.
4) reforming in TWO HOURS?!
5) reforming in a bag of holding. I can maybe see a Portable Hole, but .... No. the bag is too small, and you are doing no one a favor.
6) pulling an entire dragon through a .. what, 2' diameter mouth of the Bag?

By the way, do they realize that everything in the bag is soaked in dragon gore?

so at this point, I would just let the brute slam the head on the ground for the Int check. Let the lich do what undead are good at doing: wait and wait and wait and wait and wait

 

[steev42]

Well, I was basing my decision around a few points. I'm doing this from memory at the moment, as I don't have my books, but this is what I remember.

1) The weight thing--I've always considered dragons to be fairly light for their size...otherwise, I don't see anyway that their relatively low wingspan could keep them aloft. So, the weight is fine. And a dragon would certainly fit in 250 cubic feet...probably not much else, but they haven't been keeping much in the bag anyway. I've generally ruled that putting things in/taking them out, the bag is magic so will "stretch" to accomodate, though it won't actually look any bigger. Like old cartoons.

2) Dismembering. We've got a couple of nature-freaks in the party, so doing this in such a way as to not damage the scales, to me, doesn't seem that hard. But not really the point.

3) The dracolich description says nothing about the corpse requiring to be whole. At least not that I saw, but it's possible I missed it.

4) The dracolich description says that when a suitable corpse is around, it possesses it instantaneously.

5) A lot of this, as Bad Paper's point 5 brought up, and was really what was stumping me on this...Are items in the Bag of Holding close enough to each other? Are they all in the same pocket dimension or different ones? Is it even physical space in such a manner that the phylactery and the dragon's corpse existed?

And to Infiniti--I'm just curious what about this makes you think that it would be a proto-dracolich? Did I miss something when I was reading it? What I saw was that if the 'lich made his Charisma check, then it was a lich, otherwise it was a proto-.

Really, I was just curious how others would manage it; plot wise, I had the lich (with both body and mind remembering that it had been bested by these heroes--that's two times) snag a scroll of teleport while the heroes were busy buffing behind a wall of force and get out. Enemies plotting from afar are always fun.

 

[Thanee]

BAG WARS!!

(KotDT)

Bye
Thanee

 

[Bad Paper]

4) The dracolich description says that when a suitable corpse is around, it possesses it instantaneously.

yeah, but it still takes 2d4 days to re-form. DAYS

 

[Sejs]

You know, frankly, I'd say that the dracolich probably tore the bejesus out of the inside of that bag, what with all those claws, horns, teeth and bony parts combined with the tight confines.

So, yeah. Dracolich lost on the astral plane with some of your former loot, and you standing there with a bag of holding that doesn't work anymore.

 

[Bad Paper]

...so he's left holding the bag?