An Open Letter to Planewalker Regarding so-called Prestige Races

[Southern Oracle]

Frankly, if I go looking for a conversion of an old setting to 3.5 rules, I'm looking for something where nothing major except the mechanics have changed.

By your definition, the Planewalker project is not a conversion. They have advanced the timeline 5 years after Faction War, changed the hierarchy of the remaining factions, added new factions, added new skills, feats, PC races, etc., and added new rules thought appropriate but not necessarily necessary (i.e., the prestige races and locales of power). Again, some of what has been done is really good -- I'm particularly proud of my Ring-Givers -- but there is a lot that would be considered "controversial." At the very beginning a discussion was launched as to whether the setting should be converted pre- or post-Faction War, and the latter camp prevailed. C'est la vie.

 

[Mouseferatu]

By your definition, the Planewalker project is not a conversion. They have advanced the timeline 5 years after Faction War, changed the hierarchy of the remaining factions, added new factions, added new skills, feats, PC races, etc., and added new rules thought appropriate but not necessarily necessary (i.e., the prestige races and locales of power). Again, some of what has been done is really good -- I'm particularly proud of my Ring-Givers -- but there is a lot that would be considered "controversial." At the very beginning a discussion was launched as to whether the setting should be converted pre- or post-Faction War, and the latter camp prevailed. C'est la vie.

Ah. See, I was unaware of that, and I thank you for letting me know. I'll still check it out, since I have no doubt that a large portion of it is quality work, but I'll go into it knowing that it's not exactly what I'm (at the moment) looking for.

Gracias.

 

[Zappo]

That bit had me perplexed, too. I would scrap it. But rest assured, the vast majority of the Planewalker material is truly quality stuff.

 

[Psion]

That bit had me perplexed, too. I would scrap it. But rest assured, the vast majority of the Planewalker material is truly quality stuff.

Oh, I beleive you. I really would only have a problem with this if it gets built upon in more material. Otherwise, I can just ignore it.

 

[Shemeska]

By your definition, the Planewalker project is not a conversion. They have advanced the timeline 5 years after Faction War, changed the hierarchy of the remaining factions, added new factions, added new skills, feats, PC races, etc., and added new rules thought appropriate but not necessarily necessary (i.e., the prestige races and locales of power). Again, some of what has been done is really good -- I'm particularly proud of my Ring-Givers -- but there is a lot that would be considered "controversial." At the very beginning a discussion was launched as to whether the setting should be converted pre- or post-Faction War, and the latter camp prevailed. C'est la vie.

The Ring-Givers, Jeremo in particular were an inclusion that I was very happy to see. I was pleased as punch with the job you did with them.

 

[Hardhead]

As far as I know, it's false. The feat "Sculpt Self" is a prerequisite for all "prestige races," at least for those in the Dragon issue.

If it's not the case in Planeswalker's thingie, then there's a balance problem.

Unlike the Dragon magazine article and Oathbound, the Planewalker rules don't require a feat.

I just want to mention again that overall the conversion is good. But this part... yuch. It's not Planescape-y at all.

 

[Southern Oracle]

The Ring-Givers, Jeremo in particular were an inclusion that I was very happy to see. I was pleased as punch with the job you did with them.

Thank you, Shemeska. Your work is always top-notch as well, and you are without a doubt THE poster child (poster fiend?) for Planescape out there on the Wizards boards. The fact that you stay in character and still manage to communicate politely, effectively, and entertainingly is a credit to your talent as a player and a DM.

 

[Banshee16]

By your definition, the Planewalker project is not a conversion. They have advanced the timeline 5 years after Faction War, changed the hierarchy of the remaining factions, added new factions, added new skills, feats, PC races, etc., and added new rules thought appropriate but not necessarily necessary (i.e., the prestige races and locales of power). Again, some of what has been done is really good -- I'm particularly proud of my Ring-Givers -- but there is a lot that would be considered "controversial." At the very beginning a discussion was launched as to whether the setting should be converted pre- or post-Faction War, and the latter camp prevailed. C'est la vie.

There's nothing really that wrong with it. The setting does advance. And extrapolating the rules for exiled or defunct factions shouldn't be hard....some like the Mind's Eye just need to be separated into their parts.

Personally, I'm impressed with what I've seen of PS 3E. I'm just frustrated it's taken so long. And although I would love to contribute, I've generally found that the setting has been done a bit differently than I'd have liked it to be done, and as a result I would have gotten frustrated trying to work within the consensus. The Planescape group tends to be full of very bright, highly creative, but also very opinionated people, and I think the process of trying to get them all to agree in order to create a coherent product has really made the project take longer than otherwise. That said, although it's a bit different from how I'd do it, it's been very well done.

To me, that includes the Prestige Races. I like the concept. In many ways it's similar to using a Permanency spell to provide yourself with new capabilities....and in many cases costs more than Permanency would. The idea of beings mutating or changing on the planes is pretty common, and I think the Prestige Races concept deals with that. With regards to the ones in Planescape not requiring a feat....that can, or may not be a fault. BP's "Faeries" book also mentions that characters don't need the feat if they evolve while meditating at a focus location.

Banshee

 

[Mouseferatu]

I suppose I should take half a mo' to jump in and qualify my position.

I really don't have a problem with settings advancing or evolving. Nothing makes a setting stagnant faster than--well, stagnating.

That said...

When it comes to conversions of material that is not available under the current system, I would prefer that the old setting first be made available as it was (other than the obvious changes required by the differences and greater options inherent in the new system), and only then should it be advanced/evolved in new (and therefore, by definition, optional) supplements.

Again, I understand that such a step-by-step process is a lot of work. I don't expect that of volunteers like those behind Planewalker, and this is in no way meant as a criticism of what PW has done. I mention it simply to explain my own personal stance on the matter, and why PW isn't what I'm looking for right now.

 

[Hardhead]

There's nothing really that wrong with it. The setting does advance. And extrapolating the rules for exiled or defunct factions shouldn't be hard....some like the Mind's Eye just need to be separated into their parts.

I agree there. In that respect, the Planewalker group had a very large problem. There had been a major "blow up the setting" event.... and then it had been canceled before it could be elaborated on. Planescape players were left with a cliffhanger, and a very unpopular one at that. However, given time, something of a consensus started to develop among the fanbase on how to handle it, which was basically to use Faction War, but to mollify it by not completly blowing up the setting. The Planewalker group eventually went with that, thankfully, because I think ignoring Faction War would have been a disservice to the community.

As for advancing the timeline five years, well, I don't think you could really lay down a setting in the aftermath of Faction War, so I think giving Sigil some time to "settle down" is necessary. If you leave questions like "how is the city govenred" up in the air, then you're not really laying down a complete setting.

What I don't like is the idea of adding stuff whole cloth. Extrapolating from the existing setting? OK, that's fine. Adding stuff that never existed before? OK, I don't like that at all. If the "prestige races" were optional, that'd at least be tolerable, or in some sort of supplemental release. But adding to the core concepts of the setting? I don't like it. I reiterate: this is not Oathbound.