An Opportunity for WotC in 2009

[Cam Banks]

AD&D2E morphed over its existence, changing from what it originally set out to be until it became the weighty game of Skills & Powers and splatbooks aplenty. I had a lot of fun with it early on, since it was new and fresh and challenged a lot of the 1E concepts, but by the time everybody and their dog had a kit, and the adventures became more novel than game, I think the 3rd edition revision was much-welcomed.

I think people miss the diverse settings that came out every year or so, and the new twists that were given in each of those, but one thing I never really liked was the "all settings are connected via Spelljammer, Mists, and the Planes" thing.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Knightfall]

caveat: I enjoyed 2e back in the day as well, but any number of polls around here suggest plenty of people skipped 2e (or went back to 1e) before going on to 3e. Because of this, She-who-must-not-be-named, TSR's policies at the time, kits, Realms-Shaking-Events, Skills & Powers, Mein Alf, and the bungling that lead to TSR's failure, few people tend to look back at 2e as the "golden years."

2e is the red-headed stepchild of D&D, overlooked by nostalgia seekers in favor of Basic, 1e, or OD&D and majorly outgunned by later systems like 3e or 4e.

While I find it a superior system to 1e (and ALMOST as good as BECMI) I still think its suffering middle-child syndrome; too old to hang out with the new kids, too new to start a nostalgic revival campaign, and accepted by many but preferred as D&D "edition of choice" by almost none.

I can believe that. 2e does get overlooked as a game system. Kits never bothered me and I didn't even know about "She-who-must-not-be-named" at the time.

I liked Skills & Powers. It made me think about how a D&d game can be different than the norm. Yes, TSR's policies were pretty bad, but I didn't have much of an online presence back then as I do now.

The thing that drove me nuts was THAC0.

Seriously, I'd love it if someone used the OGL to recreate the 2e game system but without the headaches. I've looked at OSRIC but it's not close enough to what I would use, being a 1e clone.

I need me a 2e clone.

 

[Remathilis]

I need me a 2e clone.

Heh, I once considered atom-smashing 3e, C&C and 2e to come up with a 2.5e. I'm not sure though it would be worth the work though...

 

[Reynard]

The oft-quoted figure is that the D&D playerbase dropped by 50%.

If this is true I would guess that it has as much to do with the fact that 2E came at a time when WW appeared as the first real company capable of competing with TSR, as well as the fact that 2E showed up in the middle of a generation of gamers -- the 1E players were still going strong and the 3E players (I mean the people that started with either of these editions) weren't old enough yet. I happened to start in late 1E, but since I found BECMI first, I played that almost until 2E was out (2e came out 6 months after we bought our 1E books).

Also, if this figure is over the life of the edition, it doesn't seem that bad. I bet 50% of the player base for 3E has meandered off in the last 8 years (if it hadn't, there probably wouldn't be a 4E).

 

[Reynard]

The thing that drove me nuts was THAC0.

Nothing worse than having to ::gasp:: subtract.

I hate anti-THAC0-ism, as if adding is objectively superior to [/i] subtraction or, heavens forbid, charts.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Nothing worse than having to ::gasp:: subtract.

I hate anti-THAC0-ism, as if adding is objectively superior to [/i] subtraction or, heavens forbid, charts.

Well, it is a lot easier... And having to reference a chart to see if I hit sucks. Yeah, I did it in the 2e days and it worked fine, but people were happy with the horse and buggy before cars were affordable too. Times change and things get better. ThAC0 died with the times and rightfully so.

 

[Remathilis]

Nothing worse than having to ::gasp:: subtract.

I hate anti-THAC0-ism, as if adding is objectively superior to [/i] subtraction or, heavens forbid, charts.

Its not addition vs. subtraction, its there is a whole process involved in recalculating the math that makes it hard.

1.) Determine your "to-hit" bonus based on Str, magic, etc. (+3)
2.) Roll a d20. Add "to-hit" to total rolled. (8. 11 total.)
3.) Subtract that number from your thac0 (18-11=7)
4.) Compare number to monsters AC. (7> AC 4, you miss)

Compare with...

1.) Determine your "to-hit" bonus (+3)
2.) Roll a d20. Add your "to-hit" to total rolled (8. 11 total)
3.) Compare number to monsters AC (11 vs AC 16, you miss).

The third step is completely removed, so there is no-pretotal - thac0 to create a small number (which races into negative numbers, and arbitrarily ends a -10).

Sorry, but negative AC/Thac0 was one of the biggest barriers to play for new players or casuals, and its removal is NOT lamented by me.

 

[Ranger REG]

Next year is the 20th anniversary of AD&D 2nd Edition. Last year, the 30th anniversary for AD&D, I was hoping for a special, anniversary edition of 1E. it, of course, never matertialised. But there's still time! WotC could make it happen!

/dreaming

Won't buy it. Don't miss 2e, except for the fluff.

If you want it, get the official PDF.

 

[Staffan]

Its not addition vs. subtraction, its there is a whole process involved in recalculating the math that makes it hard.

1.) Determine your "to-hit" bonus based on Str, magic, etc. (+3)
2.) Roll a d20. Add "to-hit" to total rolled. (8. 11 total.)
3.) Subtract that number from your thac0 (18-11=7)
4.) Compare number to monsters AC. (7> AC 4, you miss)

On my character sheets, I had a number of spaces for "adjusted THAC0". Next to the base THAC0 number I had space for melee (Str-adjusted), ranged (Dex-adjusted), and Thrown (both) THACO, and on the weapons list there was a box for weapon-specific THAC0 as well (adjusted for specialization and magic). That way, it was almost as simple as 3e: adjusted THAC0 -d20 roll = lowest AC hit.

 

[thedungeondelver]

I never understood the brouhaha about THAC0 - firstly, it didn't apply to PCs (not in AD&D, anyway), secondly, it breaks down when it hits repeating 20's, and thirdly, the charts were right there anyway.


Also, I think it's adorable that the OP thinks WotC gives two about older versions of D&D except to milk for "cool" names for minis sets any more.