An Opportunity for WotC in 2009

[Mallus]

Count me among the gamers who had a great deal of fun with 2e, but WotC is in no position to sell me anything related to it, because what made it fun was what me and friends brought to it; our long-running homebrew, the characters, the rule mods, etc.

 

[Nikosandros]

Sorry, but negative AC/Thac0 was one of the biggest barriers to play for new players or casuals, and its removal is NOT lamented by me.

I have played AD&D with plenty of newbies, but I never found any problems with negative AC...

 

[wingsandsword]

Nothing worse than having to ::gasp:: subtract.

I hate anti-THAC0-ism, as if adding is objectively superior to [/i] subtraction or, heavens forbid, charts.

Well, as a 11 year old with my very first Basic D&D box set, figuring out THAC0 was enough of an impediment to learning the game that I put up the box and waited another 8 years until I was in college to try D&D.

THAC0 is counterintuitive and needlessly complex, while the BAB mechanic is a lot more obvious to even the casual player.

 

[JeffB]

Well, as a 11 year old with my very first Basic D&D box set, figuring out THAC0 was enough of an impediment to learning the game that I put up the box and waited another 8 years until I was in college to try D&D..

Which Basic set would have this been in?

It wasn't in Holmes, Moldvay or Mentzer -they all had a full to Hit chart/s.

I've only seen THAC0 in the Rules Cyclopedia, or some of the AD&D intro sets.

 

[Aristotle]

The settings were great. My Dark Sun campaign was my first real long-running campaign. I continued to collect planescape stuff, just to read it, even after I had stopped playing D&D.

The game itself just felt... old? I don't know how else to explain it, but I didn't dislike the game mechanics because they were too simple or too hard. They just seemed like a previous generation in game design to me. I'm sure some people still prefer the way things were done then. I found myself drawn to new game design concepts, so I moved on and took a cell of maybe 15 gamers (who more or less played/purchased whichever game I was running) with me. When 3e was released I saw a chance to get the game I want with some innovative game design. I'm on the 4e boat for much the same reason... I don't know that I'm typical, but that's as good a reason as I have for abandoning 2e and not being interested in going back.

 

[Silver Moon]

Wizard's focus now is on 4E, don't expect them to put resources anywhere else.


As for the mini 'Edition Wars' comments in this thread, I'll go back to my old tagline
"It's all D&D to me."

 

[TheWinslow]

Anyone consider that the player base shirinking so much might be why you don't see many here to criticize 2E?

I mean, if they left the game, they probably aren't around to talk about why?

That's why so many on this thread like the old edition compared to feeling otherwise.

FYI, I started playing in 2005, and other than reading old sourcebooks, I have no experience with a previous edition.

 

[wingsandsword]

Which Basic set would have this been in?

It wasn't in Holmes, Moldvay or Mentzer -they all had a full to Hit chart/s.

I've only seen THAC0 in the Rules Cyclopedia, or some of the AD&D intro sets.

The big black one with the red dragon on the cover, made in 1991 I think. I think that was based off the Rules Cyclopedia rules (the TSR products flyer on the inside was promoting the Rules Cyclopedia as the way to get the rules for going beyond 5th level, which is all the box set included).

I just couldn't figure out THAC0. Saves and HP, no problem. XP, no problem. All the other elements of the game were no problem, but rolling to hit and AC just was too confusing to be fun. Even when I was older and playing 2e I hated that about the game and wrote up full to-hit charts for my PCs when I played so I could just look and see if I hit instead of all the arithmetic.

 

[Staffan]

I never understood the brouhaha about THAC0 - firstly, it didn't apply to PCs (not in AD&D, anyway), secondly, it breaks down when it hits repeating 20's, and thirdly, the charts were right there anyway.

It did apply to PCs and everyone else in 2e, and 2e didn't have the repeating 20s, or any sort of attack matrices at all for that matter.

 

[Crothian]

It did apply to PCs and everyone else in 2e, and 2e didn't have the repeating 20s, or any sort of attack matrices at all for that matter.

If someone really needed an attack matrix for THAC0 then they would be better served going back to middle school or something. As far as concepts go THAC0 is pretty simple. It is one of those things that I have only heard people complain about on line.

There are plenty of good other reasons to talk bad about 2e.