Andy Collin's comments re censoring playtester reviews

[jeffh]

So in essence, you're hammering me--over and over and over again--for not including a "disclaimer" that

...

B) was irrelevant to my post, because it wouldn't have changed word one of what I said, and would only have made people doubt the veracity of my opinion even more than some of them already do.

He has repeatedly said, actually, that B) is irrelevant. Which I think amounts to an open admission that he doesn't have a leg to stand on, personally, but I'm just saying don't expect him to be moved by this, or any other, common-sense consideration. He's as good as announced that he isn't open to debating the issue rationally.

 

[PoeticJustice]

You know, I've been ignoring this--over and over again--and I'm done being slammed.

The contents of the memo were themselves confidential, until Andy Collins chose to make them public. I could no more have said anything about it than I could have gone into details on the mechanics of the games. The person who first started spreading rumors and half-truths about said memo was violating their NDA.

Second, I said what I meant, and I meant what I said. I could not have said any more about the game--the vast majority that I like, or the few small points that I don't--without going into mechanical detail. And that's something I was, again, forbidden to do by NDA, completely regardless of anything any subsequent memo said.

So in essence, you're hammering me--over and over and over again--for not including a "disclaimer" that

A) would have violated NDA for me to include,

B) was irrelevant to my post, because it wouldn't have changed word one of what I said, and would only have made people doubt the veracity of my opinion even more than some of them already do.

Actually, you're right. I didn't know the memo was classified and that somebody broke their NDA by posting it. So I admit I was wrong. For what it's worth, I really do like most of your work.

I asked about the particulars of the situation in my initial post of the thread, but the discussion jumped on this subject and I guess I was arguing without all the information. I couldn't find it myself, and nobody stepped forward to correct me until now, so I just assumed I had the correct grasp of the situation.

I apologize to you, Ari, and hope nobody drew any misconception over what I said. I never meant to imply that you were shilling.

 

[Umbran]

Folks,

The whole discussion of academic classification of "professional" is pretty off-topic for this board. Please let that section of the discussion drop.

As for the rest - I see rising tension and annoyance. I see signs of badgering. Please, folks, don't continue along those lines, as incivility quickly follows. If you cannot be gracious in your discussion, I'm going to have to ask you to hold your tongues.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Edited because of mod action:

As an academic i would have loved to join this discussion. All i have to add now is this: the academic position on professionalism has been misrepresented in this thread. Make of that what you will.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I apologize to you, Ari, and hope nobody drew any misconception over what I said. I never meant to imply that you were shilling.

Apology accepted.

 

[mhensley]

Illegitimi Non Carborundum

 

[Maggan]

Wow, thats cool! Is that for computer games rather than RPGs though? I thought the British education system was liberal

Mostly focus on mobile gaming, computer gaming. Designing board games is a part of the studies, of course.

Sometimes I wish I was 20 years younger, so I could get back to academic studies!

/M

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

The contents of the memo were themselves confidential, until Andy Collins chose to make them public.

Poor Ari took the brunt on this, because he got a post out first. By the time I knew I was allowed to say anything, I had already seen some of the reactions to his post.

Folks, we (paid rpg game designers) all do this all the time. You look at what you are allowed to talk about, pick a few things you want to emphasize, and make a few public statements. I have done it for everything from 3e to EverQuest RPG to Saga.

I've talked to Ari. I've hung out with Ari. He was trying to share some enthusiasm, because he was allowed to. The rules under which he and I operated for these statements were not new, unique, or particularly limiting. It's just business as usual for rpg freelancers, and he and I have both worked for a lot more than just WotC. When we can, we like to talk about our work. It's fun for us, and people seem to want to read it. So you all know, from now to the end of time, if we're talking about a game that isn't out yet, there are restrictions of some kind about what we can say. Always have been. Always will be.

Ari, I hope this experience doesn't have a chilling effect on you sharing project details when you can. I, at least, still want to know what you're working on whenever I can

 

[Mouseferatu]

Ari, I hope this experience doesn't have a chilling effect on you sharing project details when you can. I, at least, still want to know what you're working on whenever I can

Appreciate the support, Owen.

And no, I'll still be talking about what I'm working on, when I'm allowed to do so. I'd really love to talk about the 4E stuff I've done so far, but of course I can't.

At the moment, I'm just getting started on a novel, so it'll be a little while until I do anything else with the game material. But I'm looking forward to my next D&D gig when it does start.

 

[catsclaw227]

And no, I'll still be talking about what I'm working on, when I'm allowed to do so. I'd really love to talk about the 4E stuff I've done so far, but of course I can't.

At the moment, I'm just getting started on a novel, so it'll be a little while until I do anything else with the game material. But I'm looking forward to my next D&D gig when it does start.

Good luck on the novel writing gig Ari, I look forward to seeing more. Also, if my guesses are correct and you are writing Necro's 4e book, Clark hinted that most of the Advanced Player Guide (or whatever it will be called) for 4e is pretty much done even though he has no idea what's in it. Congrats on being able to bang this out under the odd circumstances. I know I'll be buying it on reputation only (both yours and Necro).