Andy Collins: "Most Magic Items in D&D Are Awful"

[Razz]

Andy Collins quote: "when’s the last time your character thought seriously about shelling out 23,500 gp for a rod of enemy detection, or a whopping fifty-seven thousand gold pieces for a helm of underwater action?"

Um, what is he smoking? Does he and the rest of R&D really think this?

How about "when's the last time you ALLOWED your players to sift through magic items and purchase them like it was Walmart?"

NEVER!

Is it to my understanding that the majority of D&D players purchase magic items like a candy store? I'm not talking about +1 weapons and potions, but do you let them walk through a metropolis and purchase the latest stock of "Rings of 3 Wishes?"

I always thought it was a DM's job to randomly scatter or introduce new magic items to the game via various methods besides random loot?

 

[MerricB]

Razz - if you don't allow PCs to buy magic items, what do they do with their money?

Cheers!

 

[I'm A Banana]

Um, what is he smoking? Does he and the rest of R&D really think this?

How about "when's the last time you ALLOWED your players to sift through magic items and purchase them like it was Walmart?"

NEVER!

Is it to my understanding that the majority of D&D players purchase magic items like a candy store? I'm not talking about +1 weapons and potions, but do you let them walk through a metropolis and purchase the latest stock of "Rings of 3 Wishes?"

I always thought it was a DM's job to randomly scatter or introduce new magic items to the game via various methods besides random loot?

#1 thing to note is that the GP cost comes out of the treasure value, too. So, as a DM, you're plunking down "market price" for a helm of underwater action that will pretty much be ignored if it can't be sold, or you're plunking down equivalent GP for an item that the party will see and use and love.

#2 thing to note is that the way you play D&D isn't the only way to play D&D.

#3 thing to note is that purchasing or requisitioning or ordering magic items isn't an inherently bad thing.

 

[Pants]

Andy Collins quote: "when’s the last time your character thought seriously about shelling out 23,500 gp for a rod of enemy detection, or a whopping fifty-seven thousand gold pieces for a helm of underwater action?"

Um, what is he smoking? Does he and the rest of R&D really think this?

How about "when's the last time you ALLOWED your players to sift through magic items and purchase them like it was Walmart?"

NEVER!

Is it to my understanding that the majority of D&D players purchase magic items like a candy store? I'm not talking about +1 weapons and potions, but do you let them walk through a metropolis and purchase the latest stock of "Rings of 3 Wishes?"

I always thought it was a DM's job to randomly scatter or introduce new magic items to the game via various methods besides random loot?

Not everyone plays that way. Some don't allow ANY buying or selling, others (like me) are happy to let the adventurers spend their gold on something useful. Hell, if they're in Greyhawk/Waterdeep or wherever, I'd let them buy pretty much anything... within reason. They've earned that gold, what's the point of giving them gold and then not allowing them to do anything with it?

Frankly, I think if you follow D&D's standard treasure assumptions (as established back in 1e) then there's absolutely no reason WHY a lucrative market wouldn't spring up around the acquiring and selling of magical items.

 

[blargney the second]

Given that Andy's done more than a little of that design himself, he's putting himself down as well. He's well within his rights to do so... and if other designers can't handle the fact that their magic items were awful, they shouldn't be working on D&D.

Would you prefer that the MIC didn't come out, and the designers kept their hands over their eyes singing "La la la"? See Palladium for that sort of game.

Like I said, I think he's right that the items were too expensive, and it's good that they're correcting those mistakes with the new book. But he's still smearing a lot of ugly paint with that very broad brush. His language goes well beyond mere self-criticism into the territory of unnecessary roughness.

-blarg

 

[Ulric]

Don't get me wrong, I have my copy of Magic Item Compendium pre-ordered but I only started recently and I have *lots* of material to catch up on and niche bits that I honestly wouldn't think to make myself. However, I see a lot of very experienced gamers who know the game inside and out who apparently refuse to use any resource that isn't "Official".

It really seems like people are taking what, on its own, is an open-ended and very creative game and pigeonholing themselves by refusing to be creative.

Exactly. I've been playing D&D for a long time and this is a huge trend I've seen in recent years. Most of the "problems" people talk about can be easily fixed, in game, by a DM. But too many anally retentive people follow every little stat or set of numbers in official books just so they can complain about "problems" or "errors". If you notice a problem...CHANGE IT, and keep right on playing. That's the power you have as a DM. If you're so uncreative that you can't handle that, maybe you shouldn't be a DM at all.

 

[hong]

Andy Collins, stop making my house rules obsolete, damn you!!!11

It's spooky that not a month after I write up the following:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=187954

the designers post an essay addressing the exact same issues I'm trying to fix. Well, not _quite_ the exact same issues (I'm looking at it more from the PoV of boosting NPCs without having to deck them out with treasure) but it's much the same thing in the end.


[/stealthpimp]

 

[Felon]

I guess I'm the only guy who read this article and experienced something akin to relief.

Yet how can that be, when others so often lament how over time the power of magic items gradually come to overshadow the characters and their innate abilities?

Bonuses to AC and ability scores don't faze me. Nor do the attack and damage bonuses from magic weapons. What distresses me is a campaign where all characters can fly, teleport, turn invisible and/or ethereal at will, and otherwise acquire magical superpowers that allow PC's to simply ignore physical challenges placed in their path.

 

[Felon]

They've earned that gold, what's the point of giving them gold and then not allowing them to do anything with it?

Yep, a simple point that many would do well to make note of. Money's worthless if there's nothing to spend it on.

 

[Gooba42]

Exactly. I've been playing D&D for a long time and this is a huge trend I've seen in recent years. Most of the "problems" people talk about can be easily fixed, in game, by a DM. But too many anally retentive people follow every little stat or set of numbers in official books just so they can complain about "problems" or "errors". If you notice a problem...CHANGE IT, and keep right on playing. That's the power you have as a DM. If you're so uncreative that you can't handle that, maybe you shouldn't be a DM at all.

The ability to create my own content and play flexibly with a group of players all free to do the same is why I play this instead of D&D Online, EverQuest or any of a handful of competitors in the market.

I'm sure it's better for WotC's bottom line this way but honestly I'd love to see them focus on mechanics rather than implementations.

Don't sell us soulmelds, give us an Incarnum workbook, a couple examples and directions how to make soulmelds.

Don't sell us vestiges, give us a Binding workbook, a couple examples and directions how to make vestiges.

Demand for campaign specific and pre-made content will drive "implementation sales" on a separate line of books. I don't want WotC to hold my hand, I want them to put tools in it.