Angel 10/29/2003 (Possible Spoilers)

[Henry]

I enjoyed it, myself, mostly for the little bits.

Gunn going potty in Angel's chair.

Spike calling it Bloody Fantastic.

Fred being VERY clear about how she thinks of Wesley.


On the negative side, thinking back, this season is repeating some of the exact same themes of Season 4 - Wesley getting spurned by Fred for another guy; The gang gets mystically bamboozled and hilarity ensues; and another member of the group almost kills himself overachieving because he feels useless. I wish Lorne's psychosis had a more interesting explanation, but I took what they gave me.

After being all gung-ho about Angel's season 5 just a few days ago, I'm seeing this episode as so formulaic it was a pale shadow. Hoepfully the season gets better, because I'm enjoying it - but I'm getting worried because I'm enjoying Smallville and CSI more than Angel, and THAT's not good.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Anyone else think that there should be a Halloween show where nothing actually happens? I mean, it was established (and disproved) on Buffy that Halloween was a time when the supernatural beings took a night off. Of course, something always happened that Buffy had to deal with, despite every Halloween ep repeating the "nothing will happen" tradition.

I haven't seen the whole series, but IIRC the original statement was that vampires took halloween off. And maybe demons were added later on. But the two buffy hallowwen episodes I've seen were based on human actions - a choas magician taking advantage of the costume craze and some college kids trying to get into the spirit a little too hard. This episode also involved a party - at least halfway driven by the human employees of the company, and the "supernatural" happenings were based on one guy's stress, not a "force of darkness" setting out to do something on halloween.

So, from what I've seen, the actual statement has never been broken - vampires and other creatures of the night don't think of haloween as any big deal and often take the night off - HOWEVER, humans and those who have become imbedded in their world may make their own trouble...

Kahuna burger

 

[Tauric]

I haven't seen the whole series, but IIRC the original statement was that vampires took halloween off. And maybe demons were added later on. But the two buffy hallowwen episodes I've seen were based on human actions - a choas magician taking advantage of the costume craze and some college kids trying to get into the spirit a little too hard. This episode also involved a party - at least halfway driven by the human employees of the company, and the "supernatural" happenings were based on one guy's stress, not a "force of darkness" setting out to do something on halloween.

So, from what I've seen, the actual statement has never been broken - vampires and other creatures of the night don't think of haloween as any big deal and often take the night off - HOWEVER, humans and those who have become imbedded in their world may make their own trouble...

Kahuna burger

You are right, except that on the third Buffy Halloween ep it was a group of young vamps causing trouble, leading Spike to complain that they were "giving us [vamps] all a bad name", or something to that effect.

I guess I just expected something different.

Oh, what were the trailers for next week? For some reason I miss them every time.

 

[Tauric]

Okay, being an Iowan, I'm not familiar with UCSC. Is there something special about the school, or could Eve's comment have had an "[insert school name here]" tag in it?

Basically, I thought it was a cute line, but I'm wondering if the specific reference is important. Anyone?

UCSC is the red-headed stepchild of the UC system. It was designed to emulate the experience of smaller private schools, and hence the campus was divided into several smaller colleges, each with its own theme. The focus was on teaching, with a high teacher:student ratio.

Over the years, it developed a reputation for being a very loose school, as far a lifestyle went. There is a tradition of dancing naked during the first rain of spring, for instance, that continues to this day.

UCSC also has a reputation a "hippy" school, where things like cultural and racial diversity, peace, environmentalism, and gender freedom are embraced, as well as a tolerance, or enthusiasm, for pot.

For these reasons, the academic reputation of UCSC was fairly low, and its attendees were considered the least scholarly.

Presently, however, UCSC is beginning to loose its distinciveness and it coming to resemble most of the other schools in UC system, like Berkley or Davis.

Tauric

P.S. I apologize to any red-headed stepchildren out there. I don't know if anyone else uses that expression, but it is something I picked up from a friend of mine (who is, incidentally, red-headed, but not a stepchild).

 

[CCamfield]

Well, I finally watched the whole thing, and although maybe it was a bit formulaic I liked it. I liked the way that the episode re-underlined previous themes like the relationship between Wesley and Fred.

I thought Angel's appreciation for hockey came up before, but it's possible I'm just remembering an appearance that David Boreanz did on one of the late-night TV, in which he mentioned that he is a huge hockey fan.

I guess the Lorne that appeared in the window when he was taking a rest was just a manifestation of his subconscious? It was interesting to learn that while he's all smiles and "treat all the evil clients nicely" he actually, subconsciously, wanted to destroy them...

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I guess the Lorne that appeared in the window when he was taking a rest was just a manifestation of his subconscious? It was interesting to learn that while he's all smiles and "treat all the evil clients nicely" he actually, subconsciously, wanted to destroy them...

well, ya know, at least the ones who wear suits made out of possible relatives....

 

[stevelabny]

finally got to sit down and watch this episode (had to wait for the gf to find some time to join me)

i loved the idea of "empath - sleep = trouble" , giving Lorne an episode, and most of the character interactions, but i'm still having two problems with the season so far

1> the wolfram and hart client of the week has yet to impress me.

2> wesley does nothing but pine for fred. what happened the wesley-wyndham price, rogue demon hunter? (whats a rogue demon?) or cool , broody, dont mess with me pseudo-evil Wesley?

as for next weeks preview, although it will possibly have one or more strong bad refernces (joss likes strong bad, see Buffy episode reference Trogdor and photo circulating internet of Joss in strongbad shirt) its GOTTA be about the MAILROOM CLERK WITH MEXICAN WRESTLING MASK. this guy has been in every episode this season (except, oddly enough, i dont recall seeing him tonight) delivering mail to all W&H employees. And I was waiting for his episode or punchline. Woohoo.

Ok, I'm gonna go seek help now.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I know I'm a bit late commenting on the episode myself, though I wanted some time to let it sink in before posting my thoughts.

I'm seriously going to kick Wesley right in the balls.

Now that that's out of the way, I hated that whole sub-plot. It completely marginalized Wesley and Lilah's relationship, which was certainly more complex and meaningful than just Wesley and Lilah getting it on. Sure, it was more than a little creepy, but there was definitely chemistry there. Okay, and Lilah was my favorite female on the show, and second favorite only to the big W, so I have a bit of bias too.

Furthermore, I'm really starting to have more and more resentment towards Fred. I don't loathe her as much as I did Connor, but it's starting to get close. I mean, I know Ms. Carpenter wanted to leave the show, and I can respect that. But I can't believe that out of Fred, Lilah, and Gwen, they chose to get rid of the latter two and keep only Fred. The helpless-girl act is fine, but the character is just NOT strong enough to be the only female regular, in my opinion. And the semi-obvious story arc of Fred's "empowerment" just doesn't interest me at all.

Alright, I'm taking deep breaths.

Other than this, I liked the episode a lot. I'm glad there was some story to Lorne lately, and it perfectly fit in his character. The empath to sympath deal was awfully contrived, but it did make a certain amount of sense. The demon-prince guy was a little dorky looking, and didn't really come off as demonic to me, but YMMV. The story had a good beginning - morale was sure to be low, and it's nice to see the effects of Angel and team taking over still be felt. But the idea that they would throw a party and invite all sorts of evil demonic sorts just strikes me as terribly off-character. I mean, they're trying to make the company "good", so this just seems completely out of character. The least they could have done is gotten the anti-violence spell cast again - it's not like they don't know how to do it. But besides the gap in logic, the story was quite funny and never seemed to drag.

Character-specific comments:

Angel is obviously going to flirt with the darker side of morality this season. Eve still does nothing for me, except be annoying. Yay for Spike not dominating this episode! Seeing Wes and Fred drunk was really amusing.

One this I'd like to point out specifically is Gunn. Or rather, the actor, J. August Richards. I think he's really become a great actor since his introduction, and it's a real shame that the writers don't give him more to do, to let him stretch a little.

 

[Henry]

...I hated that whole sub-plot. It completely marginalized Wesley and Lilah's relationship, which was certainly more complex and meaningful than just Wesley and Lilah getting it on.

I still haven't forgotten the scene last season where Lilah dressed up as Fred, and Wesley Made her keep the outfit on while they had sex. He's got a LOT of issues with Fred still locked up, and part of Lilah's relationship was in that context.

...The helpless-girl act is fine, but the character [Fred] is just NOT strong enough to be the only female regular, in my opinion. And the semi-obvious story arc of Fred's "empowerment" just doesn't interest me at all.

In my opinion, Fred's "empowerment" has been building the last three years, anyway. Ever since they rescued her from Pylea, she still has been a strong independent person. I still haven't forgotten that SHE was the one who saved them all from Jasmine, with the brilliant "shoot Jasmine and Angel with the same bullet" idea. The character has shown time and again just how strong she really is, and the fact that it's coming out more to the fore this season is to me a natural progression.

Other than this, I liked the episode a lot. I'm glad there was some story to Lorne lately, and it perfectly fit in his character.

However, I wished they had played out the theme a little more than just a "one episode" gag. I honestly wished Lorne was being "driven insane" or some such, and have it be a larger plot arc. Instead, the dummy had his sleep removed - WHO COULD POSSIBLY BELIEVE THAT TO BE A GOOD THING?!?!?

But the idea that they would throw a party and invite all sorts of evil demonic sorts just strikes me as terribly off-character. I mean, they're trying to make the company "good", so this just seems completely out of character.

As I noted in an earlier thread, it's going to be interesting if another "good group" shows up trying to take down Wolfram and Hart - God, if only Gunn's old running buddies could see him now! Three years ago, he's dragging flaming vampires into Wolfram and Hart's lobby to distract them; now, he's defending their clientelle from the court system, tooling around in Italian Silk suits and lounging in his office behind necro-tinted windows! I think I can see where this season's going, and if I'm right, and Joss' crew plays this for all it's worth, the gang is going to be gazing straight into the Abyss, in the truest Neitzschean sense.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Just a quick note on Fred. For some reason I see her taking the same steps Wes has taken, little girl on Buffy, Demon Hunter of 1st/2nd season of Angel, then grim and dangerous. Fred is walking those steps and may end up more Lilah when all is said and done.